249 replies to this topic

[Bridgejunky]

eyimbafc, on 18 January 2011 - 04:55 AM, said:

VDW is the kind of purchase we need if we are serious about building a new team.

Certainly worth looking at, I agree.

Quote

I thought he was fantastic at the World Cup.

Started brilliantly but faded alarmingly in my opinion. Was poor in the final I thought.

Quote

and would also consider Concentrao, Benfica's LB.

I like PVA and would certainly want to see him given his shot before we thought of going into the market to find Ashley's replacement. That said I think timing might just work against us in Patrick's case.

One definition of world class is to imagine picking a world XI. Players who make that team are world class while those who don't, are not. By that very narrow definition we have only one world class player, Ash, and, regardless of age, he shows no sign of slowing down. PVA may not want to wait another 3 years before he's starting his club's big games and might push for a move. If Carlo agrees that PVA is good enough to be our next LB then that's a situation he is going to have to consider carefully. He's going to have to take a view about when the time is right to let go of our present in order to secure our future.

[warnie_666]

Again this indicates nothing but waste of money. We pay 17 million for Bosingwa for 2 seasons. He has been mediocre this season but thats understandable after a year out with an injury. I hope we give him a 2 yr deal in Summer and keep him. I am confident he will come good next summer.

Ivanovic can act as a back up for him while I hope we sell Ferriera for good.

[Bridgejunky]

Quote

Frank Arnesen, Chelsea Sporting Director, has confirmed that Dutch right-back Gregory van der Wiel is a Blues target, according to Ajax Life....

With Chelsea suffering some defensive frailties and Jose Bosingwa’s contract up in the summer, would it be worth selling our Portuguese right-back this January, rather than risk losing him for nothing at the end of the season?

Yes, absolutely imo.

Quote

Of course, the only problem with this is that we would lose a Champions League eligible player and be replacing him with a cup-tied one.

1. On current form, we're dreaming if we imagine we might win the CL this year. The only way we are likely to qualify for next year's CL therefore is through our domestic performance. This makes the strength of our Premier League squad far more important than the strength of our Champions League one.

2. We shore up our RB options by solving our CB shortage. If we reinforce that position, and if Alex also comes back, then we can comfortably cover the RB slot in the Champions League with a combination of Ivanovich, Essien & Paulo.

3. I Don't think, and never have thought, that JB is that good. There is general dissatisfaction with him at the moment and people are saying he has lost something since the injury. I disagree. I believe people have at last moved beyond the 'determined to be pleased' stage and are beginning to really examine his output. When you do that, Bossingwa is bound to be found wanting. Yes, he looks good on the ball sometimes but he seldom actually makes anything happen. Possession often breaks down on him and of course there's the small fact that he can't defend for toffee.

For these reasons risking the loss of a player we've identified as a potential, long term RB of the future just so Jose B can play a couple of Champions League ties would be plain daft.

[Droy was my hero]

Bridgejunky, on 18 January 2011 - 06:23 AM, said:

2. We shore up our RB options by solving our CB shortage. If we reinforce that position, and if Alex also comes back, then we can comfortably cover the RB slot in the Champions League with a combination of Ivanovich, Essien & Paulo.

How can Ferreira, Bosingwa, Ivanovic, JT, Bruma and a returning Alex represent a shortage for those 3 positions while we have DD, Anelka, Malouda, Kalou, Sturridge & Kakuta for 3 front positions. Of the defenders nearly all are good, and rotation isn't necessary. Up front only 3 are any good and rotation is essential.

[Bridgejunky]

Droy was my hero, on 18 January 2011 - 07:01 AM, said:

How can Ferreira, Bosingwa, Ivanovic, JT, Bruma and a returning Alex represent a shortage for those 3 positions while we have DD, Anelka, Malouda, Kalou, Sturridge & Kakuta for 3 front positions. Of the defenders nearly all are good, and rotation isn't necessary. Up front only 3 are any good and rotation is essential.

Morning DWMH, hope you are well.

Thanks for your observation, perhaps I didn't express my thinking as well as I wanted to. My comment is responding to a question which envisages Bossingwa leaving the club during this window and being replaced by a cup-tied VDW. That would put Brane in as our starting RB for Champions League matches and see JT & Alex as the CB pairing. Even leaving aside any question marks about Jeffrey Bruma's readiness that is looking thin. We have seen in the past that Essien & Ferreira are not realistic options at CB so throw in an injury or suspension and the CB position would look dicey for the CL.

Having said all of that I think you are right, we could cover the loss of Bossingwa if need be and I would certainly sign VDW this window if Ajax would sell him and if he'd come.

[krit]

warnie_666, on 18 January 2011 - 05:49 AM, said:

Again this indicates nothing but waste of money. We pay 17 million for Bosingwa for 2 seasons. He has been mediocre this season

you called thats only mediocre? Euro league here we come.

Edited by krit, 18 January 2011 - 08:00 AM.

[warnie_666]

krit, on 18 January 2011 - 07:57 AM, said:

you called thats only mediocre? Euro league here we come.

Yea I call that mediocre. Calling him abysmal is a bit too much

[bert19]

Today's Sun
http://www.thesun.co...n-der-Wiel.html

No quotes or useful information, just basically them saying that two of our supposed targets are being targeted by city as well.

Interesting that he's valued at £17m though....

[Bridgejunky]

Who knows what's happening, there is so much spin and double-spin surrounding these things. Is it true that City are nearing his signing, is it a negotiating ploy by Ajax and or the player's agent? Who can say. What I do know is that I'll be gutted if we miss out on this player. I would certainly be putting a lot more effort into capturing VDW than I would be into picking up Luiz.

[bert19]

Yeh, although maybe the club aren't prepared to enter a bidding war over VdW given that they could go for Santon who will be cheaper or even Srna (on a free by the summer) to play the same position.
Obviously, Srna's older, but if we sign 3/4 younger players in the meantime, that's no real biggy. Plus Santon is only 19/20 so possibly might not count towards the foreign quota (unlimited under 21s?) and if the fee of around £8.5m is correct, signing him would end up significantly cheaper.

Funny how we've heard nothing about him since Rafa left Inter though.....

Edited by bert19, 21 January 2011 - 11:34 AM.

[Karan]

Bridgejunky, on 21 January 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

Who knows what's happening, there is so much spin and double-spin surrounding these things. Is it true that City are nearing his signing, is it a negotiating ploy by Ajax and or the player's agent? Who can say. What I do know is that I'll be gutted if we miss out on this player. I would certainly be putting a lot more effort into capturing VDW than I would be into picking up Luiz.

While he is a good young RB, is he or the position he plays in a key requirement for the club next season? Is the money, worth between 15-20m, not better spent on other areas of the team?

In the Bosingwa to Stay thread, I posted the following:

Karan, on 19 January 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

Extending Bosingwa's contract for one year seems a logical decision.

In business terms, as in ammortising (or writing off his 16.25m transfer fee over 3yrs), we manage to cover the costs of that transfer fee over one more year. That would be alot more sensible and prudent instead of spending another 15-20m (plus wages) on a RB like Van Der Wiel.

Assuming David Luiz is signed, Ivanovic's contract is extended, it allows for us to relatively well stocked in defence for the 2011/12 season. Ivanovic & Bosingwa for the RB slot, with the Serb also competing with Alex, JT, and Luiz (again assuming he's signed), and Cole/Van Aanholt for the LB slot (though Luiz, IIRC, is also capable of playing there). This scenario would also allow Jeffrey Bruma a full season out on loan, to give him the experience that is necessary.

Bosingwa has just recovered from a serious injury and is slowly getting to a decent level of form - the Blackburn game IMO was encouraging. Losing him on a free would have been quite a poor decision.

Van Der Wiel is a young talented RB, but the costs of acquiring him are alot more than simply giving Bosingwa an extension to his contract. In addition there are other areas in the squad that need addressing and given the austerity attempted by the club, its more sensible to concentrate on those areas.

There are alot of assumptions there, but if that is the logic or the line of thinking at the club, then I personally believe they're heading in the right direction - even if it does come at the expense of missing out on VdW.

And if the club is serious in investing alot to revitalise the squad, then surely midfielders and attackers should be higher priorities (especially strikers).

[bert19]

Karan, on 21 January 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

While he is a good young RB, is he or the position he plays in a key requirement for the club next season? Is the money, worth between 15-20m, not better spent on other areas of the team?

In the Bosingwa to Stay thread, I posted the following:

There are alot of assumptions there, but if that is the logic or the line of thinking at the club, then I personally believe they're heading in the right direction - even if it does come at the expense of missing out on VdW.

And if the club is serious in investing alot to revitalise the squad, then surely midfielders and attackers should be higher priorities (especially strikers).

I agree with alot of that Karan. Will we really shell out £17m odd on a new RB? Especially if we sign Luiz for one of the prices we've heard. I think we may well bring in a RB, but a cheaper option - I know I keep mentioning the name, but we were linked with Srna last summer and he'll be on a free this one. One would presume his wages wouldn't be silly either. He might fit the bill perfectly.

[Bridgejunky]

Karan, on 21 January 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

While he is a good young RB, is he or the position he plays in a key requirement for the club next season? Is the money, worth between 15-20m, not better spent on other areas of the team?

Not in my opimion, no.

I think the RB slot is a squad weakness. Plugging that deficiency with VDW has the great benefit of significantly upgrading our right-side attacking options too. I know many people are happy with Bossingwa but I am not. I think the man's attacking prowess is a myth and we all know that he can't defend for toffee. In my opinion VDW is a right-footed Ashley Cole with the same unbelievable engine. Adding the Dutchman improves us on both sides of the ball. His signing is a very high priority in my mind.

Where we can agree is that a new RB would perhaps not be my top choice if I knew that only one major signing could be afforded. If however we are adding two or more 'first teamers' then VDW is a must for me.

Karan, on 19 January 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

Extending Bosingwa's contract for one year seems a logical decision.

In business terms, as in ammortising (or writing off his 16.25m transfer fee over 3yrs), we manage to cover the costs of that transfer fee over one more year. That would be alot more sensible and prudent instead of spending another 15-20m (plus wages) on a RB like Van Der Wiel.

In fact this isn't quite what amortisation means but I understand your point. Given that I don't rate Bossingwa I'm never going to agree that this is a logical football decision and we fans can't assess it on business grounds without access to all the information; information that we are never going to get.

Not sure what you mean by, "cover the costs of that transfer". If you mean spread the payments then that would be dictated by the original terms of the transfer and will not be affected by his extended contract. Prehaps you mean that the value of his contract on the club's balance sheet, which would have been quite small in this year, can now be 'written up' but this is pretty technical and has little or no impact on our operating results.

[paulw66]

Bridgejunky, on 21 January 2011 - 01:45 PM, said:

Not sure what you mean by, "cover the costs of that transfer". If you mean spread the payments then that would be dictated by the original terms of the transfer and will not be affected by his extended contract. Prehaps you mean that the value of his contract on the club's balance sheet, which would have been quite small in this year, can now be 'written up' but this is pretty technical and has little or no impact on our operating results.

Basic accounting.

When you buy an assest (in this case a footballer) you spread the cost of the transfer fee over the length of the contract on your P&L.

So, if Chelsea buy a player in the summer for £10m on a 4 year contract, Chelsea's P&L statement will account for a £2.5m expense in years 1,2,3 and 4.

[Bridgejunky]

paulw66, on 21 January 2011 - 01:58 PM, said:

Basic accounting.

When you buy an assest (in this case a footballer) you spread the cost of the transfer fee over the length of the contract on your P&L.

So, if Chelsea buy a player in the summer for £10m on a 4 year contract, Chelsea's P&L statement will account for a £2.5m expense in years 1,2,3 and 4.

Not so Paul. I think you may be conflating two different things: -

1. The amount of the transfer apportioned to each reporting period will simply reflect the arrangements made in the original contract with the selling club. There is no 'rule' as to how that might be apportioned as this will be a matter for negotiation. For example, ManU insisted that the full £80m fee for Ronaldo was paid up front. That entire sum will therefore have appeared in Madrid's accounts for the year the purchase was made.

2. The value of Ronaldo's contract (in other words his resale value) will however still be appearing in Madrid's balance sheet. It is not however a simple matter of reducing it by a fixed amount over the length of the contract. The rate at which this value reduces is meant to reflect the changing value of the item. In the case of a footballer's contract this would reduce more slowly at the beginning of the contract and more quickly at the end. In the real world the actual figures often come down to what the company's auditor will accept.

If you are still sure that I need re-educating on this then let's take it to PMs to avoid boring everyone else. Agreed?