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Raul Meireles


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#361 zenyatta20

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:35 AM

View PostJuni, on 22 February 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:


All of which is fine if you ignore the fact he is woefully out of his depth in a defensive capacity. His positional sense is almost nil and he doesn't know how to play the deeper role, as we witnessed so obviously last night when he was sold by a most basic dummy. Fine as an 8 or a 10, but never, ever a 6.


Surely the clueless gaffer can see it. it's so freaking obvious.

#362 chiswickblue

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:33 PM

AVB gave Meireles one game as the 6 against Man U and we looked fairly fluid, despite losing. So he seems to persist either the idea, against all logic. Someone needs to play defensive midfield and it has to be one of Mike, Romeu or Essien.

You can't defend the midfield he selected last night. Not fit for purpose.

#363 zaffo

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:56 PM

View PostJuni, on 22 February 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:


All of which is fine if you ignore the fact he is woefully out of his depth in a defensive capacity. His positional sense is almost nil and he doesn't know how to play the deeper role, as we witnessed so obviously last night when he was sold by a most basic dummy. Fine as an 8 or a 10, but never, ever a 6.

I'm not ignoring that at all. He's not the most defensively suited player we have by a long shot, but it's his other qualities of being a bit more dynamic that edge him over the others. That's why there's two players in that role used at once, so the defensive duties end up spread. Thus taking some of the responsibility of the one player. I agree he's of more value and more comfortable further afield, but he's simply doing what he's being asked to do. You replace him with one of the more defensively solid players we have and you lose that dynamic/midfield transition that Meireles does offer. It's a catch 22.

#364 MikelBlue

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:46 PM

View Postzaffo, on 22 February 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

As I said in the match thread.



I bet Usain Bolt has adequate speed to interchange in midfield should he choose a career in football but sadly for Usain, a footballer requires more than mobility. I see Merieles as a jack of all trades but master of none which just about renders him incompetent against credible opponents as we saw last night. Not Raul's fault but the fault of the man who sent him out there and watched him chase shadows for 70mins before learning the hard way 3 goals later (like an inexperienced manager) that competent midfielders were required for the task. His positioning was non existent (literally MIA in midfield), passing was amateurish and marking was nil. He's not better than Essien or Mikel as DMs and doesn't touch Lampard's effectiveness today. All three were on the bench in a game were you needed hardmen in midfield to do the dirty job of grinding out an away result. These are the guys we have. We don't have 'interchangers' but we have guys that know how to win.

Problem is AVB is petty and near childish in his man management approach. Swallow your pride and work with all the players. He's really making a fool out of himself with the way the team is rapidly crash landing under his leadership.

#365 steve morgan

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:18 PM

View Postzaffo, on 22 February 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

I'm not ignoring that at all. He's not the most defensively suited player we have by a long shot, but it's his other qualities of being a bit more dynamic that edge him over the others. That's why there's two players in that role used at once, so the defensive duties end up spread. Thus taking some of the responsibility of the one player. I agree he's of more value and more comfortable further afield, but he's simply doing what he's being asked to do. You replace him with one of the more defensively solid players we have and you lose that dynamic/midfield transition that Meireles does offer. It's a catch 22.

Dynamic the new word in soccer the truth is he can't trap can't pass and definetly can't tackle so the only dynamic he has is that he can run as long has he dosen't have a ball at his feet .

#366 Backbiter

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:01 PM

Quote

I see Merieles as a jack of all trades but master of none which just about renders him incompetent against credible opponents as we saw last night. Not Raul's fault but the fault of the man who sent him out there and watched him chase shadows for 70mins before learning the hard way 3 goals later (like an inexperienced manager) that competent midfielders were required for the task. His positioning was non existent (literally MIA in midfield), passing was amateurish and marking was nil. He's not better than Essien or Mikel as DMs and doesn't touch Lampard's effectiveness today. All three were on the bench in a game were you needed hardmen in midfield to do the dirty job of grinding out an away result. These are the guys we have. We don't have 'interchangers' but we have guys that know how to win.

Problem is AVB is petty and near childish in his man management approach. Swallow your pride and work with all the players. He's really making a fool out of himself with the way the team is rapidly crash landing under his leadership.


I agree with this. Meireles would be a decent squad utility midfielder, but has not proved himself worthy of a starting role. Despite this he gets picked ahead of superior players and continues to play badly. AVB's managing of the talent at his disposal has been disastrous, and even though it is unprofessional of players to attack him openly and to undermine him by leaking stuff to the media, you can understand what has motivated them to do it when they can see players being poorly managed.

I really hoped we had picked a top manager when we appointed him, but I have been dismayed by his tactics, his selections, his substitutions and his handling of the squad. If you consider Meireles as his one real signing (I think KdB, Lukaku and Cahill were more the 'club signings' he talked about the other week), it doesn't fill me with much hope that he's good at identifying talent, either. Especially as he badly weakened our options by sending out Benayoun and Josh Mac on loan.

#367 SnowFlurryBlue

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:52 PM

Maybe one of the most disappointed players that I have felt about in quite a long time, yes even over Torres who I loved but felt would take a step down with us in terms of his scoring.

I thought his "good at everything, great at nothing" ability would shine with us with who would be around him. At times, he shows it....most though....just lost

#368 Shatners Bassoon

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:46 PM

View Postzenyatta20, on 22 February 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

I have never seen a more technically and tactically inept player in a chelsea shirt .


This your 1st season?

#369 Blue_In_Every_Way

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:21 PM

I'm still shocked that our fans were claiming not too long ago that the decision to drop Lamps for this guy was justified. He's as crap today as he has been for ages now - spanning since....err... when did he make his Chelsea debut again?

As I said before, he's not even fit to be in the same dressing room as an utter legend like Lampard. He's in no way more "dynamic" than Lamps. Lamps is a player who's built a career on being box to box - which he couldn't have done if he was as limitied as some of the WUMs would have you believe.

He isn't as good at "transition play" as Lampard either - a player with the assists to prove what great decision making and vision he has when there are options available.

Hasn't got the general positional sense that Lamps has either, or the passing range, or the composure on the ball...Why do we keep betraying our legends for such players? Just look at the Drogba-Torres debate before the AFCON.

His selection in the team is one of the 2 most disappointing things about AVB's short tenure thus faslept with someone's chick or something... nothing else can justify this guy being constantly overlooked for the utter garbage we've persisted with.

#370 Droy was my hero

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:33 PM

View PostBlue_In_Every_Way, on 22 February 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I'm still shocked that our fans were claiming not too long ago that the decision to drop Lamps for this guy was justified. He's as crap today as he has been for ages now - spanning since....err... when did he make his Chelsea debut again?

Come on - he was quite good in some games at the start of the season, and more than adequate in others. OK his form has fallen, but to re-write history this soon just debases your own argument.

#371 zweiosterei

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:56 PM

The guy is just too diluted of a player. He excels at nothing. He's neither here not there, sort of like a ghost, a shadow, a fleeting glimpse but never the whole thing.

#372 chrisp

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:17 AM

this week's scapegoat. poor sod.

dont stress raul - it'll be someone else's turn by the brum replay.

#373 zaffo

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:30 AM

View PostMikelBlue, on 22 February 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

I bet Usain Bolt has adequate speed to interchange in midfield should he choose a career in football but sadly for Usain, a footballer requires more than mobility. I see Merieles as a jack of all trades but master of none which just about renders him incompetent against credible opponents as we saw last night. Not Raul's fault but the fault of the man who sent him out there and watched him chase shadows for 70mins before learning the hard way 3 goals later (like an inexperienced manager) that competent midfielders were required for the task. His positioning was non existent (literally MIA in midfield), passing was amateurish and marking was nil. He's not better than Essien or Mikel as DMs and doesn't touch Lampard's effectiveness today. All three were on the bench in a game were you needed hardmen in midfield to do the dirty job of grinding out an away result. These are the guys we have. We don't have 'interchangers' but we have guys that know how to win.

Problem is AVB is petty and near childish in his man management approach. Swallow your pride and work with all the players. He's really making a fool out of himself with the way the team is rapidly crash landing under his leadership.

If you wish to see it that way, sure. Mobility is just as important though, you have someone who is more cumbersome and you're going to have just as many issues. You're right, Meireles is a bit of a jack of all trades sort of player, but again that's through no fault of his own. He's been relied upon too heavily for the sort of player he is, which wouldn't have been the case had we managed to sign Modric. But alas, we didn't and Meireles has had to take up some of that extra slack. More so when Essien's been out for much of the season, Mikel has had his injury issues and Lampard quite inconsistent and on the decline himself. Leaving Romeu, who came in and done well at times, but others also showed his inexperience. So it's not like we're brimming with choices. Raul might not be the best passer, the best tackler or the biggest goal threat but he works hard and as mentioned, he offers a better dynamic in midfield, which allows for more balanced transition and fluidity in the middle. In general, he does read the play well and has shown that during the season, but he also done something that basically none of the others do- which again relates back to being more dynamic. He makes forward passes to break the lines, but then follows it up. He did it a few times against Napoli, where he'd pass the ball forward and then rotate through the middle. You don't get that with the others who can play that deep role. They usually just play short backwards or sideways passes. This is the exact reason why Raul plays as often as he does. He actually isn't as horrendously bad as people here makes him out to be- they just tend to see what's on the surface and not the little things inbetween the lines.

You say AVB is petty and near childish, but what about some of our players? Shouldn't quite a few of them swallow their own pride and egos and work with the coach? It goes both ways. And at the end of the day, the coach picks the side. It's then the players job to execute their roles on the pitch. Something that's only every been done on a collective level a handful of times this season.


View Poststeve morgan, on 22 February 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Dynamic the new word in soccer the truth is he can't trap can't pass and definetly can't tackle so the only dynamic he has is that he can run as long has he dosen't have a ball at his feet .

It's hardly a new word, but more what best explains it all. He's not the best player we have, but he does have qualities that others in his position don't. I'm sure people would still criticise and pick faults if it was Mikel in that role or even Romeu, showing his inexperience and inconsistency too. Meireles is just the go to man because he's the one on the pitch at the present. Weather that's fair or not, is down to the individual I guess.

#374 Budgeezer

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:33 AM

View Postchrisp, on 23 February 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

this week's scapegoat. poor sod.


Wrong. Not a scapegoat everyone is culpable in this, as for him I don't think I have seen such a poor player in a Chelsea shirt for a long time.

Oh and Bosingwa in there too.

#375 Sleeping Dave

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:30 PM

View PostBudgeezer, on 23 February 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:


Wrong. Not a scapegoat everyone is culpable in this, as for him I don't think I have seen such a poor player in a Chelsea shirt for a long time.

Oh and Bosingwa in there too.

I think there is an argument for claiming him to be our worst midfielder since Slavisa Jokanovic. Or is that harsh on Slavisa?





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