3402 replies to this topic

[Alec_Cobas]

 downunderblue, on 22 February 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

What a silly proposition, it's not the owners job to speak with the players, when all he needs to do is to come out and publicly support AVB and his decisions.

Once/ if he gets it, the players lose their perceived leverage and they can then refocus on their individual efforts.

I don't know who, but somebody with power in the club has to tell these clowns that they don't make the decisions and have to accept it. Florentino Perez resigned from his position in Real Madrid years ago because he felt the players were getting too much power in the club, and I think it's happening the same in Chelsea.

[James Prescott]

No doubt the players have too much power - and it must be stamped out. That starts with the owner, and must continue with the manager - but it has to be the right manager to do this, someone who won't take this sort of stuff from anyone and won't simply pander to them.

To be fair, AVB is taking a stand against them. But he isn't getting the results to back it up, and doesn't have the players to either.

I simply cannot decide if AVB is the right man for us right now - the phrase that keeps resounding is 'right man, wrong time'.

[bluecueball]

 James Prescott, on 22 February 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

...the phrase that keeps resounding is 'right man, wrong time'.

That's because you keep saying it! ;)

[James Prescott]

 bluecueball, on 22 February 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

That's because you keep saying it! ;)

That's because it's true. It makes sense to me.

Sadly, that means this is the wrong time for him though, which means he may well go.

[Bob Singleton]

 James Prescott, on 22 February 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

No doubt the players have too much power - and it must be stamped out. That starts with the owner, and must continue with the manager - but it has to be the right manager to do this, someone who won't take this sort of stuff from anyone and won't simply pander to them.

To be fair, AVB is taking a stand against them. But he isn't getting the results to back it up, and doesn't have the players to either.

I simply cannot decide if AVB is the right man for us right now - the phrase that keeps resounding is 'right man, wrong time'.

In reality, nobody would be the right man for the job this season

Past managers with better records than AVB (and therefore, you would think, better able to command the dressing room) have failed to rejuvenate the squad properly, control the big egos etc.

I feel sorry for AVB. He's obviously been told to make major changes to the squad, and those members of the squad who know they are on their way out are being as uncooperative and unprofessional as possible (witness Frank Lampard taking absolutely no notice of the instructions being given to him when about to go on as a sub). Further pressure is being heaped upon him by the press, who are in the main anti-Chelsea (again witness the fact that Ryan Giggs has been having extra marital affairs left, right and centre, yet the media's bête noire is always John Terry), with all sorts of spurious stories. Take last night for example, much was made of Cole, Essien, Lampard and Torres being on the bench, yet no mention was made of Cole being 50-50 to start anyway, or that Essien was still not fully fit after half a season out injured. As for the Lampard situation, neither he nor Meireles have played particularly well this season, but given the choice between a player sulking and undermining his authority and one who at least tows the line, it's no surprise why AVB chose Raul ahead of Frank!

It's a damning indictment of past managers that our best right back is a center back. It's a damning indictment of past managers that we have no-one to provide width. It's a damning indictment of past managers that some players believe THEY control the dressing room, THEY have the right to start every game come what may, THEY decide what formation and style will be played.

To give a novice manager, however talented he may be, and however great he may yet become, the task of completely changing from top to bottom the squad and the style of football is a major challenge. To do so without the backing of many of the senior professionals makes that job even harder.

For those who want his head, who else do you propose? Even if Mouinho/Hiddink/[insert name of current managerial wankfest favourite] came in today, players like Lampard, Drogba, Malouda etc know they're on their way out... do you seriously believe they'd suddenly start playing with heart and passion again?

Mod: An excellent post but, while the future of the manager will be up for consideration in Summer 2012 just as many players' futures will be, it probably shifts the conversation into an area that belongs in the AVB thread. Because Bob's post follows from earlier comments here I haven't moved this post but I have moved responses to it. You can see replies from Izheyi, PeterTwo, NandoNumberNine & LosNumerados by following the links. If anyone else wants to respond to Bob please use the AVB thread.

[ish]

that isn't an indictment on the managers. alot of times they get shafted, rarely do they get to spend money on players where they might want to. the lack of a proper technical director with clear goals isn't there and lack of a cohesive idea of the type of team they want hurts managers too.

Mourinho got to make his team, everyone since then has had to shoehorn players into positions, werent given enough support in the transfer market either. chelsea blow money on too many stupid purchases, ivanovic, anelka, luiz, torres to name a few were bought with not enough planning and not enough intelligence. poor spending for all of them. the managers had little to no say in all those purchases. for that kind of money you could of got thiago silva(much earlier, when Carvalho was known to be leaving) and multiple attacking options.

[Budgeezer]

I was just sat thinking the other night, I wonder if taking a punt on Walcott this summer would work. I really like him and I understand he can be very frustrating but I honestly think he needs a change of scenery and a new challenge. I also think whether it be AVB or another manager if he goes he would be a good option to look at.

Just saying.

[downunderblue]

 Budgeezer, on 23 February 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

I was just sat thinking the other night, I wonder if taking a punt on Walcott this summer would work. I really like him and I understand he can be very frustrating but I honestly think he needs a change of scenery and a new challenge. I also think whether it be AVB or another manager if he goes he would be a good option to look at.

Just saying.

Arsenals version of Kalou ... Surely we can do a bit better.

With Lamps, Cole and JT all getting on, we'll struggle for club and association trained players (thus the Cahill buy), but Walcott?

[Budgeezer]

 downunderblue, on 23 February 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Arsenals version of Kalou ... Surely we can do a bit better.

With Lamps, Cole and JT all getting on, we'll struggle for club and association trained players (thus the Cahill buy), but Walcott?

Look I am not forcing this on you or anyone, just a thought I had whilst thinking about the summers activities.

I just thought it would raise talking points, that's all.

[Hugh Jars 99]

 Alec_Cobas, on 22 February 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

I don't know who, but somebody with power in the club has to tell these clowns that they don't make the decisions and have to accept it. Florentino Perez resigned from his position in Real Madrid years ago because he felt the players were getting too much power in the club, and I think it's happening the same in Chelsea.

OK, I understand the point about player power and undermining the manager - I really do - but when the manager is making such obvious mistake tactically and with selection then who should say something? Or does everyone just wait until AVB has run the club into the ground (potentially) and finished outside of the CL positions this season? Its not like the mistakes are subtle, they are glaringly obvious. Does he get absolute power just because of the title he has within the club? Devils advocate here, I'm just asking the question

[Suiko]

I remember during last summer's deadline day when Ribery rumours popped up I was like "no way I don't want him. He's overrated, has a bad attitude and injury prone."

My god what I wouldn't give to have him at the club right now, though I still don't want us to sign him in the summer or anything if that makes any sense

[Siven]

 downunderblue, on 23 February 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Arsenals version of Kalou ... Surely we can do a bit better.

With Lamps, Cole and JT all getting on, we'll struggle for club and association trained players (thus the Cahill buy), but Walcott?

Kalou doesn't have any stand out aspects of his game, at least Walcott offers us pace. FWIW I think we could do better, but I wouldn't be disappointed if he were bought/contract signed was reasonable.

[Sleeping Dave]

 Budgeezer, on 23 February 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Look I am not forcing this on you or anyone, just a thought I had whilst thinking about the summers activities.

I just thought it would raise talking points, that's all.

I see where you are going with this but for me Walcott is a worse copy of Sturridge. Lots of pace although Sturridge is a better finisher. None of them have any sort of awareness or ability to pick out their team mates.

Just my two pennies.

[chelsea fan forever]

Ok so why would we swap Sturridge a vastly superior player with better skill and more goals... for Theo walcott who has no skills and less goals?

[Alec_Cobas]

Another player I would love to come is Christian Eriksen, the kid is a genius. But when you see Harry and Mancini in Old Trafford tonight, you have to think they're not watching Veermer...