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Following Chelsea's Loans

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34 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Well, at least he can't say he heard it in a press conference !

😂

I don't even understand the basis of his argument? What exactly was the blueprint of success of a youth/young player into the team? Loan success? Talent? Both combined?

You could be Bamford and be the championship's highest scorer and still not get a look into the team. And not because you had good and successful players blocking your path, but because the club would rather spend Multi millions on has beens like falcao and pato and Higuain and whatever. 

You could be kdb (I know not youth but very early 20 young and talented player). Be an obvious world class talent to most that have seen you play, have a great loan spell and yet be out of the team because Jose Mourinho wanted a bang average Oscar to play over you. And this was after kdb had a MoTM performance in his first game for us against hull (I think) and then thrown out. (Lol jose)

So anyone claiming that mount and rj's success and inclusion in the team was "obvious" and "guaranteed" is either taking the piss or just bloody 'high'.

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9 hours ago, kennypaul said:

Now he's who I want to see in the squad next year. 

Or maybe wait yet another year!
Certainly showing the way to get into our team is by performing on loan rather than hanging around the edge of the first team squad at Cobham waiting for minutes.

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State of Play: Reflections on the Chelsea Academy

Long piece by Juni.  he knows much more than any of us, so it is always good to read him.

 

Quote

The dust has settled and the calm after the storm is gently guiding Chelsea Football Club from a somewhat controversial summer into the winter. Discontent is rarely far from Stamford Bridge and, though it seems unlikely to return in the next few months, in the wake of the departures of so many talented academy graduates who were far from content with their lot, thoughts inevitably drift towards what the future looks like.

The cold, hard facts are indisputable. Tammy Abraham, Fikayo Tomori, Marc Guehi, Iké Ugbo, Tino Livramento, Lewis Bate, Myles Peart-Harris, Dynel Simeu, Marcel Lewis, Pierre Ekwah and Charlie Wiggett all departed while under contract (or having been made an offer) with the Blues in the space of just 60 days in July and August. Tino Anjorin later joined Lokomotiv Moscow on loan with an option to buy that was generally expected to be triggered in January (a recent injury notwithstanding). Billy Gilmour, Conor Gallagher, Ethan Ampadu, Dujon Sterling and Armando Broja are among a 22-strong loan army this term with less than certain futures back at Stamford Bridge, regardless of how well they’re playing.

The facts will also show that the funds raised facilitated the signing Romelu Lukaku for a club record £97m fee, and that agreements for buyback fees were struck for Abraham, Guehi, Livramento and (if he goes) Anjorin, although it would cost the reigning European Champions more than £150m if they were to bring everyone home in the years to come. Whether or not Lukaku succeeds isn’t likely to serve as overall justification for the summer business but, while a promising start had at least eased the frustration felt by some parts of the fan base, a six-game barren run and subsequent injury saw some of those concerns return to the fore.

...................lots more

That site no longer allows comments so I'll make mine here

I'm not sure any sales really facilitated the signing of Lukaku.  What really facilitated it was TT taking us to the CL final and as part of that the signings of Mendy, Pulisic, Havertz, Werner, Chilwell, Silva the presence of Kante, Rudiger, Jorginho, Azpi, Kovacic, and the Academy players Christensen, Mount and James   (nothing intended by ordering).  That is what made a big investment in a striker for now a good idea (rather than general investment in players for the future).

And he writes as though the Academy is our root to produce players for the first team or for sale.
I think it also needs to be considered from the youngsters pov and his parents'.  For them the Academy is a route to professional football full stop.  It is like the M1, you don't join the M1 to get to Leeds.  You join the M1 to get as far north as possible knowing they'll be more and more of options the further you go.
In that light all the moves recently are great news for anyone at or joining Cobham.

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 Abraham, Tomori, Mason Mount, Reece James, Callum Hudson-Odoi, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Guehi, Anjorin, Broja and Trevoh Chalobah all signed for the Blues at first opportunity in the Under-9 age group

Remember when we were accused of child-trafficking?

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16 hours ago, kennypaul said:

Now he's who I want to see in the squad next year. 

I have no doubt he will be. Only point of discussion is for which position? I feel he is better suited as a floater/no 10 behind the striker than as a 6. I would honestly sell ziyech and bring him in.

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10 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Or maybe wait yet another year!
Certainly showing the way to get into our team is by performing on loan rather than hanging around the edge of the first team squad at Cobham waiting for minutes.

No even though he's Chelsea bred and has signed for a five stretch with us his drive and passion is sorely needed in my opinion. as an aside Droy  I'm not ashamed to say I've become a Jorghino convert. I got a mate who hates him says he can't tackle and is soft, but he loved mata ? anyway watching him during this winning spell has opened my eyes to how clever he is. Back to Connor, I think TT has got major headaches next season if he brings him back and if RLC's Lazarus-like form remains. what happens to Billy boy as well?

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20 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

State of Play: Reflections on the Chelsea Academy

Long piece by Juni.  he knows much more than any of us, so it is always good to read him.
 

With all due respect to this clearly effort piece, I don't really get his point. It seems to be all: board is bad, success is unsustainable.

I don't understand how Chelsea's model is supposedly unsustainable. Sustainability in football seems awfully misunderstood - stability of coaching doesn't really guarantee much. If anything, the state that both Ferguson and Wenger left their clubs in, doesn't inspire me to trust that kind of stability that is simply one-man or one-idea over-reliance. 

I feel like the stability at Chelsea is pretty clear: a really strong stable top management structure that's been here for so long it has outlasted any other structure at the superclubs in Europe. Barça changes presidents and boards every few years and they're either at the top of Europe or in complete turmoil, lots of clubs changed ownerships, Utd has changed Glazer's lackey men over the years, Arsenal changed CEOs more than I can keep up with, even Bayern has had some turbulent changes at the top. These are clubs with "identities" and traditions and style and DNA and whatever marketing terms they like to use for their brands.

I think the sustainability at Chelsea is clear: the top management knows what this game is about, it's about winning when you can, never delaying success because this sport is very much about cycles similar to "winning windows" in the NBA or the NFL. When you're ready to win, you go and win. 

I don't understand what he wants in regards to academy products. Does the club need a defined identity for the academy? I doubt it. Why limit youth players to one style of football? To be a top footballer, you need to be extremely well rounded, that's what it takes to be at a top club. Foden was always amazing on the ball at City, he only started playing when he developed physically. That should be and was the lesson of the McEachran days - good players on the ball because of trying to be La Masia II simply doesn't cut it, physicality, workrate, tactical understanding of the game and even pro football minutes are needed to play for a top PL side. The most exciting thing about the recent academy graduates in our current squad is how well rounded they are. They can play for any manager we bring in.

Did he just praise Lampard for playing players who were obviously not good enough? Yeah, James is better than keeping Zappacosta, think we all knew that in the summer of 2019. The only player good enough on that list was David Luiz. But we went on to concede 54 goals in the league that season so hard to say that was particularly a good decision when articles were pouring that season about how we lacked leadership and experience at the back.

Is buying top talent from the market more unsustainable than academy youth players? I find that hard to believe. A club like Dortmund doesn't rely on its own academy products, they go and buy the best young talents around Europe because their academy can't produce top talent constantly. Heck, Ajax doest that as well.

Barcelona was saved from the early 00s crisis by a once-in-a-lifetime generation of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets - they hit the lottery cause otherwise they could have been in trouble. And guess what? They are trying to rely on La Masia to save them again, and they do have good players but they're nowhere near that category of talent. It just doesn't happen that often. In the same way, as good as Livramento is right now, or Harvey Vale or Soonsup-Bell, the reality is that, the odds that they're as good as Reece James and Mason Mount - as in, CL winning quality - are slim. Top talent is rare. Top talent from your academy is extremely rare. It's not sustainable to just say, hey we're going to build the squad around the 2020 PL 2 winning squad. When they're very good, it's a welcome bonus - but you can't just bet on that if you're a serious ambitious team. 

To fight for trophies, especially in a league as competitive as the PL, you build around top talent, more likely than not, that's from the outside. It's just a game of probability.

And Barcelona's fall isn't because they stopped trusting La Masia, that's the political easy answer to why they've been completely mismanaged. Their wage bill exploded when their homegrown players became superstars and used their power to ask for outrageous wages which they've accepted. Busquets, Pique, Sergio Roberto, Jordi Alba were all on +250k per week wages, with Messi of course. So it's not really just going after Griezmann or Dembele - their La Masia core was just as expensive.

And his quip about Sarr or Barkley is unnecessary. Sarr started 3 games, 2 were meaningless. Barkley started 1 game. If they weren't proven players with many seasons at top flight divisions, Tuchel wouldn't have picked youth players. He'd have played RLC v Burnley, and would have played Chalobah/AC/Azpilicueta at Brentford. I don't understand his point. Vale is doing well with the Dev Squad, but he's not utterly dominating either. Certainly there's no capable CB in the Dev Squad at the moment, including the young guy from Barcelona they got. The good players are all on loan and that's how it should be. If they're so good, they're already playing pro minutes on loan on a fast track to the first team. Levi Colwill on loan in the Championship at 18 shows how much he's rated. That's how it should be in my opinion. 

It's funny he quotes United's youth record. Greenwood is clearly a top, top talent - but he's a striker playing at winger because he doesn't know yet how to play striker. Rashford was brought on by Van Gaal when United were hit by an injury crisis, McTominay was the same under Mourinho - and effectively under OGS, only Greenwood (who would have made it pretty much at any club with his above average finishing quality) is a full contributor to the Utd team in the last few years. That's the guy claiming "Youth, courage, success" as his mantra.

 

Tuchel played a 17 years old Kouassi at PSG against Dortmund in the Champions League round of 16, a crucial game too. And he had all of Thiago Silva, Kimpembe and Marquinhos that season. I think if there's an incredible talent currently at Cobham, he will spot him.

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