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Jasonb   
On 11/7/2021 at 10:57 AM, Mark Kelly said:

Lampty played against Liverpool , made a fool out of TAA and then set up the Brighton equaliser , he's a fantastic prospect.

Yes he looked very good yet as I'm sure you are aware Reece James had just broken through and Azpi was still first choice.

Don't blame the kid for going just a timing thing yet if he is injury prone it might prove to have been wise with hindsight, time will tell. 

 

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Jasonb   

On Hazard seen him a few times and though good on the ball no more incisive runs and shots, he is just another body in midfield.

I recall him saying he might need another op, don't know if it happened,

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VA96   
15 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

The financial results give some info so since about this time last year we have known the total trading profit figures on players sold in 19/20 which includes Hazard and Morata and a few others.  £110m for the pair is certainly reasonably accurate(perhaps +/-£10m at most).
It was as I said last year, much higher than I had expected.

How have you arrived at these figures?

The FY20 accounts say we had disposed of £47.8m (net book value) of players for a profit of £142.6m meaning we had a total income of £190.4m. The contingent clauses are only booked when realised so would have included any league bonus for Hazard. 

Would be intrigued to see your split of the £190.4m for the following players that departed that window: 

Hazard (RM):

Morata (AM, loan with obligation to buy 1st July 2020): 

Aina (Torino): 

Da Silva (Bristol City):

Angban (Metz): 

Kalas (Bristol City): 

Luiz (Arsenal): 

Omuero (Leganes): 

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58 minutes ago, VA96 said:

How have you arrived at these figures?

The FY20 accounts say we had disposed of £47.8m (net book value) of players for a profit of £142.6m meaning we had a total income of £190.4m. The contingent clauses are only booked when realised so would have included any league bonus for Hazard. 

I've seen the £142.6m figure.  Hadn't see the £47.8m net book value (or the implied total of £190.4m).  No one else had pointed it out to me either - Thanks.
But I have just found it in the accounts on a separate line.  Much Bigger than I had imagined.  Mostly because of Morata's purchase price and perhaps his BV wasn't amortized for 19/20.

That means I do have to revise the numbers a bit.

I was working on guesses for disposal BV, so that would up my best guess by about £15 to 125m for the pair of Morata and Hazard.

player       Selling price          outgoing BV 
Pasalic       13                               0
Aina              9                               0
Kalas             8                              0
Luiz               8                               8
Hector          5                                1
Omeruo        5                                 0

The 6         48                               9

 

Hazard + Morata    142m         (BV £39m)

 

We are still well short of Hazard alone being worth £140m, but thanks to your input I have a better estimate.

Contingent clauses.  I'd be very surprised if contingent clauses on a player like Hazard were at all significant.  Certainly not a La Liga bonus.  They are more relevant for sell on clauses on young players.

 

Life is so much easier if people explain why they disagree upfront rather than ignoring the point they disagree on for 10 posts.

 

 

Notes:

I have taken prices from transfrmarkt and rounded them in £m then guess at BV for the first 6 based on reported fees and estimated amortisation.

There would be loan fees for Moses, and maybe Baka and Zappacosta, but I have no idea where that would go, so lets ignore it.

Pasalic is explicitly mentioned alongside Morata and Hazard in the accounts intro, even though transfrmarkt has him moving in Sept 2020.  So included.
Da Silva and Angban according to Wikipedia have transaction dates in 18/19

1 hour ago, VA96 said:

Morata (AM, loan with obligation to buy 1st July 2020): 

Technically the obligation to buy I understand was July 2019 which is why he was named in the 19/20 accounts.
It doesn't affect the accounting but because Morata was already on loan to AM I expect that the process of cancelling the loan, returning  playing registration to Chelsea, and only then passing ownership registration to AM was too complicated to do at the same time.
image.png.c4cf176c56831410c15e8d12372ed6d2.png

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VA96   
26 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Hazard + Morata    142m         (BV £39m)

 

We are still well short of Hazard alone being worth £140m, but thanks to your input I have a better estimate.

I think this is more accurate, Hazard went for c. £100m + contingent clauses, and that gives Morata a value of around 50m EUR. 

26 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Contingent clauses.  I'd be very surprised if contingent clauses on a player like Hazard were at all significant.  Certainly not a La Liga bonus.  They are more relevant for sell on clauses on young players.

Life is so much easier if people explain why they disagree upfront rather than ignoring the point they disagree on for 10 posts.

I have been close to the financials for 5 years ending FY20 but it was widely reported that the Hazard deal could reach c. 150m if all bonuses were achieved, majority of which are attainable. 

26 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Technically the obligation to buy I understand was July 2019 which is why he was named in the 19/20 accounts.
It doesn't affect the accounting but because Morata was already on loan to AM I expect that the process of cancelling the loan, returning  playing registration to Chelsea, and only then passing ownership registration to AM was too complicated to do at the same time.
image.png.c4cf176c56831410c15e8d12372ed6d2.png

Yes - a 1 year loan in July 2019 with obligation to buy at the end of the loan (1 July 2020) meaning all the risks and rewards of ownership were transferred at 1 July 2019 and they could recognise the sale

Edited by VA96

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1 hour ago, VA96 said:

I think this is more accurate, Hazard went for c. £100m + contingent clauses, and that gives Morata a value of around 50m EUR. 

I have been close to the financials for 5 years ending FY20 but it was widely reported that the Hazard deal could reach c. 150m if all bonuses were achieved, majority of which are attainable. 

Yes - a 1 year loan in July 2019 with obligation to buy at the end of the loan (1 July 2020) meaning all the risks and rewards of ownership were transferred at 1 July 2019 and they could recognise the sale

A lot of things are widely reported.  A lot of things are kept highly secret.  There is a big overlap.  And no one gets libelled if the fee quoted is too high.
The idea that you can add on £50m to a fee with contingent clauses strikes me as ludicrous.  Have you ever seen a similar deal?  50% through a sell on clause for a 20 year old - sure.

Perhaps contingent fees for winning the CL might be £5m or £10, but they remain v low probability.
La Liga isn't worth much to RM at all and as you say anything for their actual win in 19/20 would be included in our 19/20 accounts as certain.  
Hazard has made 54 RM appearances in all competitions and scored 5  goals.
I don't believe that there ever were £50m of contingencies in the transfer - I certainly don't believe we are getting more than £5.  

(and while I accept the numbers I still find it rather incredible we got £100m for a player with 12 months left on his contract that wanted to leave.  Maybe we paid the agent's fee - he deserves a big one from us.)
 

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3 hours ago, VA96 said:

I think this is more accurate, Hazard went for c. £100m + contingent clauses, and that gives Morata a value of around 50m EUR. 

I have been close to the financials for 5 years ending FY20 but it was widely reported that the Hazard deal could reach c. 150m if all bonuses were achieved, majority of which are attainable. 

Yes - a 1 year loan in July 2019 with obligation to buy at the end of the loan (1 July 2020) meaning all the risks and rewards of ownership were transferred at 1 July 2019 and they could recognise the sale

Well put. Pretty much the same numbers that I proved to the same poster a while back

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22 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Well put. Pretty much the same numbers that I proved to the same poster a while back

Really?  I think you are kidding yourself.          And Morata what happened to him?  Did you ever check that?

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1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

Really?  I think you are kidding yourself.          And Morata what happened to him?  Did you ever check that?

Sure. 😂

Edited by didierforever

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