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Khobar's Legacy

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paulw66   
40 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Sky now having a forensic examination of the crimes against Liverpool with mock up diagrams , reconstructions , statements saying the people bunking in were French , along the lines of JFK assassination. I kid you not , before we know it it'll be our fault .

In fairness, they should probably just award Liverpool the trophy in compensation? Perhaps throw in the PL for measure? 

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48 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Sky now having a forensic examination of the crimes against Liverpool with mock up diagrams , reconstructions , statements saying the people bunking in were French , along the lines of JFK assassination. I kid you not , before we know it it'll be our fault .

Brings up an interesting point. Would this have got to this stage if they had won?

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asvaberg   
7 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Brings up an interesting point. Would this have got to this stage if they had won?

Of course, not. The media and all the Liverpool-C-lebrities would be in praise of how wonderful Paris is at this time of the year.

They would tell how brilliant the stewardesses, French police and UEFA handled the minor ticket-challenge with all the positive and festive people going to the match.

And it would all have been forgotten by Monday.

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RDCW   
2 hours ago, Sciatika said:

I just want the police to enforce the law without fear or favour and to obey the law in doing so. For instance, to stop trying to police non-crime incidents, people's 'thinking' or simple cases of policing intent or offence as a crime as they have been instructed to do. To help them, I would like the public to stop reporting disagreement in the public square as a crime. The institutional capture of the College of Policing needs to be overturned because it has made the police partisan and therefore no longer trustworthy. I want individual police officers to stop committing crimes, particularly sexual offences where they abuse their position in society to carry out the abuse, and the courts should not be able to grant anonymity to those convicted of doing so. Sir Robert Mark pointed out that one of the challenges is to ensure there are fewer criminals in the police force than in the world at large. Collectively, I want them to act legally and constitutionally. It shouldn't be a lot to ask.

As far as the thing in Paris is concerned, I want everyone to take responsibility for their actions. That should include UEFA, the authorities, the stewards, the police and so on but that should not be used to obscure the actions of some members of the public (I.e. Liverpool supporters) who are also culpable. I have no doubt that the majority were innocent bystanders but there is also a core of fans who feel entitled to use any action they deem necessary in order to witness their team play a game and many of those have in the past been ticketless. For instance, it is common to see large numbers of LFC fans occupying aisles, standing at the back and so on. We even see this at Liverpool's own ground despite the requirement for seating because fans feel entitled to stand on the Kop when watching. I have personally witnessed them climb fences and rush barriers. They see it more as a badge of their passion rather than an infraction. Some of the video evidence suggests that the same may have happened in Paris. In such circumstances, what are the authorities to do? If they open the gates, they create an unsafe environment and a possible repeat of Hillsborough. In extremis, so many are present that it places a terminal strain on the physical infrastructure of the buildings as happened at Heysel. Walls do not fall down if people do not push them over. If the police try to reduce the pressure by kettling or using their vehicles, they are told they have made the problem worse. If they try to disperse the crowds, they are ignored. If they use batons or pepper spray, they are overreacting. We also need to understand that cultural factors. Some continental police groups are much more violent than ours. Our fans have a reputation that they fear. Fear leads to violence. Also, we need to consider the impact of alcohol and drugs. I favour an investigation but we must also seek to isolate and rectify failures including the public. People should be required to take personal responsibility for their actions. 

Eminently reasonable and sane.

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JaneB   

Great post @Sciatika although the first paragraph is rather off topic for on here.

Thanks.

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The French have much more serious, longterm social and political problems to worry about than the actions of their police.

I have no time for the Liverpool fan base, but the mass gang attacks, muggings of men, women and children would see worldwide outrage if the perpetrators and victims were reversed. Much of this happened right in front of the police too.

Whole areas of cities becoming no go areas (even ThierryHenry said fans should stay clear of those areas)  and completely lawless.

I feel desperately sorry for the decent French People who are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They either carry on as they are and see things deteriorate to reach an eventual boiling point, or they turn to Le Pen. Either choice is pretty horrific.

 

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Jasonb   

Yes some Madrid supporters were also upset by the police and muggers too.

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Ham   
1 hour ago, Backbiter said:

 

😄

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chara   
6 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Sky now having a forensic examination of the crimes against Liverpool with mock up diagrams , reconstructions , statements saying the people bunking in were French , along the lines of JFK assassination. I kid you not , before we know it it'll be our fault .

Ok....before I address Mark's points a tip of my hat to Sciatika for such an elequant adult post...how Mark and I got in the top three in the poll above such posters I do not know.

So,,Mark...we are truly to blame .... had Chelsea not gone down to penalties twice at Wembley all the heady quad talk would have dissipated and the unkind results on the last day would not have caused the despair so unfairly foisted upon the scouse faithful (?) leading of course to the perhaps ott attempts by them to console their team from the French seats and cheer them on to their rightful glory as explained to them by the media and all of us who deem Liverpool our "second team".

I now feel extremely  guilty that even after gifting ,out of the goodness of our hearts, two Cup Finals we stole 4 points in essence from Liverpool;s possible total thus preventing the quadruple and the subsequent hurt for all those loveable skallywags leading to the public display of broken hearts and desire to accept it all with good grace.

I hate myself sometimes.

Added..so upset for Liverpool I nearly forgot to include losing to RM.....another penalty shootout victory against us would have been an historic landmark...

Edited by chara
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