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Squad Status: 2022/23 Season

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Rob B   
30 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

they both had a year left and refused to sign

Refuse to sell them last summer, they walk for nothing this summer. 

Why would TT have picked them last season knowing they were going to be out of contract and on their way

For the same reason he continued to pick Rudiger and Christensen I guess - they are professional players and better than the alternatives?!

Picking them would have given them the belief that a pathway was there.   There was a pathway there after-all, we just failed to convince them of that. 

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paulw66   
8 minutes ago, Rob B said:

For the same reason he continued to pick Rudiger and Christensen I guess - they are professional players and better than the alternatives?!

Picking them would have given them the belief that a pathway was there.   There was a pathway there after-all, we just failed to convince them of that. 

You have answered your own question. Rudiger and AC were first team players and were needed (better than the alternatives).

Guehi, had he been here last season would not have been picked on merit over Rudiger, AC, Azpi, and Silva, and possibly Chalobah too. 

Should TT have picked Guehi over better players? Of course not

And had James not got injured, I doubt Tino would have played much either. Then they walk this summer for nothing and we're in the same exact spot, except we get no money.

There has to be some commitment both ways. The club was asking these players to take the same route as James, Mount, Chalobah, and they didn't want it. So they now play for Southampton and Palace in the bottom half. 

 

Edited by paulw66

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Rob B   
4 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Guehi, had he been here last season would not have been picked on merit over Rudiger, AC, Azpi, and Silva, and possibly Chalobah too. 

Should TT have picked Guehi over better players? Of course not

And had James not got injured, I doubt Tino would have played much either. Then they walk this summer for nothing and we're in the same exact spot, except we get no money.

Probably only 5 or 10 players in world football get picked on merit over those 4.  But we play with a back 3 so we need more than 3 CBs and a WB (Azpi) who can fill in there.  We played c.60 games last season and Silva got absolutely flogged.  No one has said he should have been first choice? 

And speculating on what would have happened if James didn’t get injured is largely irrelevant - he DID get injured, it’s part of football and therefore Tino would have got serious minutes.  

Consequently, we played about 5 different players there over the course of the season and now appear to be in the market for a RWB.   Crazy stuff. 

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5 hours ago, paulw66 said:

why would the club give minutes to Guehi and Livramento all the while they were refusing to sign new contracts? 

Because the reason to why they didn’t sign new contracts was because they didn’t think they’d get the chance they deserved. If they would get those chances why on earth would they not sign a new deal at Chelsea??? 

Plus, how can the club allow two such talents to only have one more year to go on their deals??? Mismanagement of the highest order. 

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6 hours ago, paulw66 said:

yes........both of whom are miles better and were needed for the first team 

 

very different to trying to nurture and develop a young player 

I don’t think you can argue that Christensen is mikes better than Guehi (or Tomori). Sarr certainly isn’t. 

5 hours ago, paulw66 said:

And had James not got injured, I doubt Tino would have played much either. Then they walk this summer for nothing and we're in the same exact spot, except we get no money.

 

I suspect that attitude is what drove Tomori, Abraham, Livramento and Guehi out of the club. It is precisely that attitude I question. 

Had Lampard not taken over at the time he did, who knows where Mount and James would have been now? Not here is my strong suspicion. 

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xCELERYx   
6 hours ago, Rob B said:

Probably only 5 or 10 players in world football get picked on merit over those 4.  But we play with a back 3 so we need more than 3 CBs and a WB (Azpi) who can fill in there.  We played c.60 games last season and Silva got absolutely flogged.  No one has said he should have been first choice? 

And speculating on what would have happened if James didn’t get injured is largely irrelevant - he DID get injured, it’s part of football and therefore Tino would have got serious minutes.  

Consequently, we played about 5 different players there over the course of the season and now appear to be in the market for a RWB.   Crazy stuff. 

But that's what both players wanted to more or less be, first team regulars - or at the very minimum playing a large volume of first team minutes. Neither of which we could realistically guarantee them here at the time, hence why both chose to leave where the chance of doing this was far greater and subsequently a lot easier to do. 

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Rob B   
5 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

But that's what both players wanted to more or less be, first team regulars - or at the very minimum playing a large volume of first team minutes. Neither of which we could realistically guarantee them here at the time, hence why both chose to leave where the chance of doing this was far greater and subsequently a lot easier to do. 

Respectfully, you have no idea that was the case!  We know that TT wanted to send Tino out on loan, but perhaps he just wanted to be part of the squad and given a chance?

Besides, I doubt any club would have guaranteed them minutes - they would have been told (even by Palace and Southampton) that they will need to earn their right to play.

Either way, we’re going round in circles a little bit now.  You and Paul W have your view,  me and Sleeping Dave have another 😄

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xCELERYx   
56 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Respectfully, you have no idea that was the case!  We know that TT wanted to send Tino out on loan, but perhaps he just wanted to be part of the squad and given a chance?

Besides, I doubt any club would have guaranteed them minutes - they would have been told (even by Palace and Southampton) that they will need to earn their right to play.

Either way, we’re going round in circles a little bit now.  You and Paul W have your view,  me and Sleeping Dave have another 😄

I've said before go read what both player have been quoted across various places as to why they left, it's not difficult to read between the lines and acknowledge they wanted a more guaranteed role.

To quote an example from Livramento when ask about having regrets on leaving.

Quote

He said: “Regrets? It would have been nice to play a game but I had to think what was best for me. Being young I've always wanted to just play first team football as soon as possible.

“I feel like if I stayed there things wouldn't have happened as quickly as now.

“It was a hard decision for everyone involved. They agreed that it was best for me as well and they've always looked after me."

It may not have been a fully fledged guarantee that they'd be penciled in starters every week, but both players would've had discussions with the respective clubs they joined about getting some sort of assurance over first team playing time. Not to mention the competition for places in a side like Southampton or Palace aren't as high as they would've been here, or at any other top end club. We simply weren't in the position to match that sort of request.

But yeah, as you've said Paul W and I have our view (the correct one obviously lol), while Dave and yourself have yours. Overall its best filed under agreeing to disagree. 

Edited by xCELERYx

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paulw66   
11 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

 

Had Lampard not taken over at the time he did, who knows where Mount and James would have been now? Not here is my strong suspicion. 

The idea that Mount and James are playing only because of Lampard is a pure insult as to how good they are, and in the overall argument, makes little sense.

Both of those signed long term contracts and went on loan (Mount twice), which is exactly what Tino didn't want to do, and Guehi didn't want to do a second time (like Mount had to) and did so BEFORE Lampard took over. They were already going down that road without him being in charge. Moreover, I presume Chalobah played 30 games last season because of Lampard too? Or did Tuchel simply decide he was good enough?

 

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paulw66   
1 hour ago, Rob B said:

Respectfully, you have no idea that was the case!  We know that TT wanted to send Tino out on loan, but perhaps he just wanted to be part of the squad and given a chance?

Besides, I doubt any club would have guaranteed them minutes - they would have been told (even by Palace and Southampton) that they will need to earn their right to play.

Either way, we’re going round in circles a little bit now.  You and Paul W have your view,  me and Sleeping Dave have another 😄

I think your argument would be a lot stronger had these guys gone to a top 6 club and got minutes.

They moved from a team that had just finished 4th and won the CL to teams that finished 14th and 15th. 

It's not hard to tell where it easier to get more minutes. 

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