JaneB

Chelsea 1 Aston Villa 1 (4 - 3 on penalties)

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36 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

As far as RLC is concerned, one swallow does not a summer make. The guy has had so many false dawns. In order to progress within the squad he needs to be doing this every opportunity he has. He is good enough for Palace as he is but in order to make an impact at the champions of Europe he needs play like this every game and still improve overall.

can't disagree with the sentiment. But he did what he could do last night. Next time if Kante is injured and one of Kovacic/Jorgi is unavailable, then TT HAS to put in RLC ahead of Saul.

38 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Ziyech is a strange one. He reminds me of Salah. Obviously capable of greatness but he just doesn't seem to be flourishing at Chelsea. What I fear is that if we do let him go I can see him eventually rocking up at Anfield and becoming world class.

Dont mind it one bit. For one thing, ziyech is already 28. Need to cut short our losses.

39 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Saul is the biggest disappointment for me though. I can take him finding it difficult to adapt to the league but it's not like he hasn't had experience playing teams from outside Spain. It's his apparent relaxed attitude as if he's confident it will all come good in the end because he will have a high regard for his own abilities. He needs to show a desire to get to grips with it in the same way Werner has and who has brought us over to his side in so doing. I'm sure this attitude will be coming over in training too. The other Spaniards in the squad need to take him off paintballing or something and explain the Chelsea ethos to him. You can be **** but as long as we can see you care we will back you, but if you stroll about smoking a cigar and shrugging your shoulders when you constantly lose possession we will get on your back and you will begin to feel very lonely. At the moment I would be far happier having Billy Gilmour in the squad than the man from Madrid.

Lesser said about Saul, the better. As of this moment, his loan spell might be as successful as falcao's  or pato's 

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11 hours ago, Ham said:

Supercup ✅

World Club Cup 

Carabao Cup

FA Cup

Premier League

Champions League

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously not as interesting to the press as city possible quad last season

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56 minutes ago, didierforever said:

 

Don't mind it one bit. For one thing, ziyech is already 28. Need to cut short our losses.

 

Sadly I can't disagree here. He's one of the most one-dimensional players I've seen at the club. He has a good left foot, but he is over-reliant on that and it makes him incredibly predictable for defenders. Unlike CHO who is under-performing too, Ziyech is 28 whereas the former has plenty of time to improve.

It may have been a flash in the pan for RLC, but I still think we need to take it at face value. He played a deeper role very, very well last night. I would be very interested to see whether he can keep it up, and he might be worth a go should Kova and Jorginho get injured or need a rest. 

Overall, glad we won. Getting a penalty shootout win under our belts early in the season might also have a positive psychological effect.

::edited for spelling::

Edited by Proud-Blue
  • Like 1

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8 hours ago, Aussie1979 said:

If rlc scored a hat trick you would still find away to criticise him . He was by far the best player on the pitch Werner had another great chance just after the goal that he should of buried .and ziyech was poor all game and definitely needs a spell on the sidelines and hopefully replaced in January 

Well not really. 

 

4 hours ago, Rob B said:

We all know you don’t rate RLC, and some of his criticism has been warranted, but he was superb last night.  And this isn’t a Chelsea fan / academy bias, he is making headlines on the back pages of the papers too.

This video completely contradicts some of your claims.  Yes he takes a lot of touches as that is his game (so does Kante and Kovacic) but to say he was strolling around unchallenged is nonsense.  Villa are a great pressing team and we saw that yesterday on the likes of Saul.  With Ruben however, he was able to beat his opponent through his first touch or strength, take them out of the game and start an attack.  He did this on multiple occasions last night - as well as setting up two clear chances for Mount and Ziyech, and stopping a number of counter attacks.  I don’t remember him giving the ball away either - he was brilliant. 

Thanks for the video - it clarifies that this is a difference between how we look at football, not just what we were thinking last night.
Those undecided should look at it again
For me the clip showed:

  • How often RLC had freedom to do WTF he wanted last night
  • How brittle the Villa press was and how easy we found it to break it
  • how easy those passes our to LWB or RWB are to make for Chelsea midfielders.
  • How often RLC advanced, advanced, and then made the easy pass to the WB
  • how unsuccessful any ball through the middle was for him, yet he tried plenty
  • how much ball he had and how little he impacted the game by creating scoring chances
  • That the best thing he did all night was the back heel to Mount near the end that should have been a goal WHEN RLC WAS ON THE EDGE OF THE 6-YARD BOX

It was a gift of a game, and he did not take it.  I cannot imagine a better game set up for RLC to perform.  Worse, he missed the opportunity to play up front where he should have been playing since he was 18.  And he looks as soft as ever.

Kovacic beats players easily in our half - all players can do that.  Pressing is about high risk tackles not "they shall not pass".  Kovacic can't take on and beat a player on the edge of their box (even CHO struggles with that).  RLC didn't either yesterday (though I'm sure he can and would if he played in the right position).  

 

4 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

definitely worth another look and he should unquestionably be 4th choice now after that.

So if we get a couple of injuries do you play RLC in a CM 2 or 3 against City and Juventus?
Do you think he can play that role against a team as good as us with 60% possession like City?
Because that is what we need for our CM4.  Saul looking dodgy does not make RLC a candidate.  

Imagine RLC playing for Norwich right now instead of Gilmour....

Edited by Droy was my hero

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5 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

[SNIP]

Worse, he missed the opportunity to play up front where he should have been playing since he was 18.

[SNIP]


Are you suggesting that he should have ignored the manager's instructions and played as a 9?

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14 hours ago, paulw66 said:

You do realise we have City on Saturday?

Paul I know you like digging me out, but we still ended up bringing on mount and Lukaku and Kante played 45 minutes.

the night before City played Wycombe at home, yet they fielded KDB,FODEN,MAHREZ,STERLING (all played 90 mins) plus TORRES (72 mins) most if not all 5 of those will probably start Saturday's game against us.

my argument was you can't just throw 10 players onto the field and expect them to gel no matter how good they are.

be honest apart from Kante and Lukaku, how many of those will definitely start against city?

I can understand wanting to not take chances on certain players, but why not try and get a couple of goals in front then make changes, and I know some players need playing time, but Sarr,Saul,Barkley, Loftus and even Odi are not going to play much, so we need to be in every competition for as long as possible.

MAN CITY PLAYED IN EVERY GAME LAST SEASON APART FROM THE FA CUP FINAL, so we can't say players are tired or they might get injured, just change 5 or 6 for this competition, why not try and win everything? I feel we have the best squad even better then city's

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paulw66   
10 minutes ago, Worsebytheday said:

Paul I know you like digging me out, but we still ended up bringing on mount and Lukaku and Kante played 45 minutes.

I don't like "digging" anyone out. I just fundamentally disagree. 

Kante needed some minutes under his belt, so split the game with Mount (who had half a game off at Spurs too)

Lukaku played 15 minutes.....big deal

10 minutes ago, Worsebytheday said:

the night before City played Wycombe at home, yet they fielded KDB,FODEN,MAHREZ,STERLING (all played 90 mins) plus TORRES (72 mins) most if not all 5 of those will probably start Saturday's game against us.

 

I don't really care what City do, but as you point out, their game was 24 hours earlier. 

11 minutes ago, Worsebytheday said:

 

my argument was you can't just throw 10 players onto the field and expect them to gel no matter how good they are.

Absolutely. It was my argument too, and I even mentioned as much at HT earlier in this thread how difficult it is, and people shouldn't have been so annoyed at the disjointed performance. 

My point is / was, that I don't care about that. It's the fizzy drinks cup 3 days before City at home. 

11 minutes ago, Worsebytheday said:

 

be honest apart from Kante and Lukaku, how many of those will definitely start against city?

None. Which is my point! I am glad the ones playing yesterday are not the ones playing on Saturday bar those two who played 60 minutes between them. 

11 minutes ago, Worsebytheday said:

 

I can understand wanting to not take chances on certain players, but why not try and get a couple of goals in front then make changes, and I know some players need playing time, but Sarr,Saul,Barkley, Loftus and even Odi are not going to play much, so we need to be in every competition for as long as possible.

So we need to be in the competition for as long as possible so the fringe players can play, but you don't want us to pick them in the first place? 

All of those who played yesterday needed the minutes under their belt. 

11 minutes ago, Worsebytheday said:

 

MAN CITY PLAYED IN EVERY GAME LAST SEASON APART FROM THE FA CUP FINAL, so we can't say players are tired or they might get injured, just change 5 or 6 for this competition, why not try and win everything? I feel we have the best squad even better then city's

Again, I don't care what City do.

There are two very important trophies to go for each season. We won the cup City wanted last season. The fact we beat them in both the FA Cup and CL might suggest they ran out of puff? Perhaps they should have discarded the league cup to give them a better chance later in the season (the league was sewn up by March)

If making 10 changes last night gives us even a 1% better chance of getting a result on Saturday, it was the right thing to do. 

Moreover, we are screwed in this cup anyway if and when we get past Southampton. The game after that clashes with the World Club Cup, so we'll be fielding kids in that round. The risk of going out last night that you were concerned about would have cost those fringe players just one more game at worst. 

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1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

So if we get a couple of injuries do you play RLC in a CM 2 or 3 against City and Juventus?

Do you think he can play that role against a team as good as us with 60% possession like City?
Because that is what we need for our CM4.  Saul looking dodgy does not make RLC a candidate.  

Imagine RLC playing for Norwich right now instead of Gilmour....

If the choice for City on Saturday is RLC or Saul then 100% RLC should start.

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41 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:


Are you suggesting that he should have ignored the manager's instructions and played as a 9?

No, just that both TT and RLC missed an opportunity to make a credible squad player out of him.
But yes, when the team sheet was announced I presumed that he would have played as AM or one of 2 strikers.
And the one good chance he created was from the edge of the 6 yard box.

21 minutes ago, Worsebytheday said:

MAN CITY PLAYED IN EVERY GAME LAST SEASON APART FROM THE FA CUP FINAL, so we can't say players are tired or they might get injured, just change 5 or 6 for this competition, why not try and win everything? I feel we have the best squad even better then city's

City have incredible rotation.  Which is probably why those players were fresh enough for these games.
Last season they played 61 games.
Sterling had 41 starts, Dias 49, Rodri 46, Ederson 48.
No one else had more than 40 starts.

Of the 5 you named that played against Wycombe, only Sterling played at the weekend against Southampton (and they have an extra 4th day before our game).
3 came on as latish subs and one stayed on the bench.
More over they had 4 18 yos and a 17 yo starting, including the whole back 4.

Our youngest players were CHO (100 appearances we are so often told), James and Chalobah (22)
The marginal players we brought in were Kepa, Sarr, Chalobah, Chilwell, RLC, Barkley, 
Ziyech, Werner and Kante started.  (although these all get counted as team changes)
 

1 minute ago, Martin1905 said:

If the choice for City on Saturday is RLC or Saul then 100% RLC should start.

RLC, Saul,  Azpi, Mount, James or Chalobah.

 

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I missed the game. Slightly surprised to read about RLC playing in a CM Jorginho role, when I saw the line up I assumed he would play either side of Werner with Ziyech in our ususal formation.

Did we play 3 CM's from the outset, or did we line up as above with RLC switching positions when Mount came on for Kante? 

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