JaneB

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2 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

because they're a bunch of cheats and the referee lapped it up

I asked my Juve friend if Cuadrado had padded shorts he spent so much time on his arse

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Holymoly   
9 hours ago, Blue Rod said:

A combination of factors led to our defeat. I don't want to repeat my earlier points about our forwards except to add that the problem may extend to our midfield.

It definitely does extend, or perhaps even emanate from the midfield. Playing Kovacic with Jorginho (or vice versa) only provides one mode of play. Neither offers a whiff of goalscoring threat and in games like last night Jorginho reverted back to being the player that would rather make a meaningless pass to a team mate rather than take the initiative himself. For all the love and squee he gets from Droy he certainly ain't no Fabregas. With two negative holding midfielders on the pitch and no in form creative attackers to pass to what you are left with is what we saw last night, a toothless tiger that has convinced itself that possession equals dominance. I fear the reappearance of xG on these threads to try and convince us how great we really are.

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Blue Rod   
8 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

I'm a bit worried by Havertz this season. However, he does have technical ability and that's the first thing I look for in a foward or attacking midefielder, so that's why I'd like to see him given more time and get rid of those players lacking the required level of technical ability. Sadly, I think the arrival of Lukaku has derailed Havertz. Kovacic has technical ability but has far, far too many games where he's just running around having zero impact. 

Every professional player has some technical ability of course. The question is, what is Havertz's? He is capable of moments of brilliance. How often they come is a separate  matter. I've said, we overpaid for him, and however much flak comes my way  I'd say it again. 

I'm not saying he is a bad player. He is just not capable of having a massive influence on our midfield. His natural game is suited to the role of a second striker. If he had the other qualities of Lampard, he could do well box to  box. 

Havertz  receives the ball, gives it back and runs into position to receive it again. Someone else has to do the hard work of holding onto that ball to deliver a creative pass to him, but who? We expect him to do exactly that for Lukaku or Werner. But he's not doing that. So last night, we had Havertz, Ziyech and Lukaku waiting for the same ball, which Kovacic alone was never going to be able to get through.

We need that creativity on the ball in our midfield next to the No 9. 

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Bison   
31 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Could only watch parts of the game (WiFi issues!) but from what I did see, it was our first genuinely poor performance of the season. A really frustrating performance and result, missing some really simple chances and giving away a goal out of nothing. 

Can someone who watched the whole thing explain how we had four times as much of the ball but conceded four times as many fouls?!

It was our second poor performance in two games.

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If it ain't broke don't fix it. Want to be wrong about Lukaku but, we looked so much better last year. Okay Timo missed a lot of chances( a lot were borderline and he could've easily been on many more - amazing what a bit of luck/confidence can do for a player - see Salah) but, we created shed-loads of GOOD chances and still remained defensively solid. 

I'll support Lukaku but, this is the glaringly obvious change to the dominant Tuchel team of last season

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30 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Could only watch parts of the game (WiFi issues!) but from what I did see, it was our first genuinely poor performance of the season. A really frustrating performance and result, missing some really simple chances and giving away a goal out of nothing. 

Can someone who watched the whole thing explain how we had four times as much of the ball but conceded four times as many fouls?!

A combination of an overawed referee and Juve falling over whenever we got near them , classic Italian football tactics . 

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Holymoly   
8 hours ago, Diddymen said:

I think I’m done with Havertz tbh. And yes, he scored the goal in the champions league final. But aside from that, what has he done?

He is the modern day Fernando Torres. We'll be forever grateful to him for one goal, but apart from that it really is just a waste of time. He is showing no sustained improvement/progression whatsoever. That said, I'm sure if we do end up letting him, Werner or Ziyech go they will end up somewhere and become world class. Just not here.

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I think we sorely lack creativity in this side , we lost because our midfield would rather play easy balls the way they are facing ( and they're all facing backwards) than turn and run at the opposition. When they do turn and run at the opposition there's normally a pass on and they run twenty-five yards to make a two yard pass when they could have just made a twenty-seven yard pass and saved time.

If we are ever going to help Lukaku we must play him in a two with Werner , quite what Werner has done to never get game time is beyond me. 

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Chrisb   
36 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

because they're a bunch of cheats and the referee lapped it up

Pretty much sums it up! 

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