JaneB

Juventus 1 Chelsea 0

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16 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Careful now, if we sink down to expecting football "the Chelsea way" we will end up like Spuds.

I think since Roman took over the "Chelsea way" would be a lot closer to Atletico Madrid's gritty style than tiki taka, free flowing football in most people's mind.

I don't care how we play as long as we win - that's the name of the game. With that being said - we won the CL with the fluid front free of last season. Maybe I didn't communicate it well but my point was less about style and more about being unpredictable, hard to mark and all the players looking comfortable in their role.

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So it took 62 games before TT picked a team/tactic which you could really question was the best given the opposition and circumstances (in my humble opinion). Impressive that it took 62 games, but worrying he got it wrong two times in a row.

Against City, Havertz should have started, but against Juve? Surely Werner was the much better solution. Especially when you pair them with marksman Ziyech who is excellent at hitting moving targets. What is the point of him if he is to play low probability passes to our slowest wing backs or precision passes to Havertz and Lukaku in positions where they can’t hurt the opposition? Baffling stuff honestly.

Switch the team selection for these two games and I think our chances of winning or drawing go up considerably. But...

 

11 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

To be fair we have had 3 or 4 awkward games and won them all.  And 3 very tough games - Liverpool away, City here and Juve away.  And got one decent result in 3 while conceding just one goal a game.
In the prem only 2 teams have scored more, only one has conceded less.  The teams we have played are in positions: 1, 2, 8, 10, 11, 15

And we haven't yet had a result to really upset the fans - like City drawing with Southampton or losing to Leicester (both bottom half teams) or like Liverpool drawing 3-3 with Brentford.  When we get a result like that then it may be right to call for an inquisition.    

this is relevant. We are not in a slump per say, just had some really tough games. Lads should just focus on the next task and not worry about what has passed. But 0-0 or worse going into 60 minutes, and I could see this team sweating a lot. I don't think we have the character yet to overcome those situations as easily as we probably should. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Ibn Battuta said:

this is relevant. We are not in a slump per say, just had some really tough games. Lads should just focus on the next task and not worry about what has passed. But 0-0 or worse going into 60 minutes, and I could see this team sweating a lot. I don't think we have the character yet to overcome those situations as easily as we probably should. 

 

Agree with what you and Droy have mentioned about not panicking just yet. 

Will also be interesting to see how the team reacts, as you mentioned, if things are not going our way by 60 minutes against Southampton. This squad sustained a lot of pressure in the Champions League last year, but it's a point to note that we were never in a losing position throughout our entire run to the trophy (even when we lost to Porto, it was a very late goal, and we were still going through on aggregate).

A very different proposition to come back from a losing position vs maintaining a lead.

EDIT to add:

Have gone through our games since TT has taken over; out of the 8 matches where we have been in a losing position during the game, there has only been one instance where we have come back to win the game (that remarkable win against City in the PL, where Alonso scored the last minute winner). The other results have been 1 draw and 6 losses. 

Probably doesn't hold much weight, just an interesting stat for the stat junkies.

  • Southampton 1 - 1 Chelsea (PL)
  • Chelsea 2 - 5 West Brom (PL)
  • Man City 1 - 2 Chelsea (PL)
  • Chelsea 0 - 1 Arsenal (PL)
  • Villa 2 - 1 Chelsea (PL)
  • Chelsea 0 - 1 Leicester (FA Cup final)
  • Chelsea 0 - 1 City (PL - this season)
  • Juventus 1 - 0 Chelsea (UCL - this season).
Edited by Sideshow Luiz

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Interesting views from Conte about the way we're using Lukaku. https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2021/9/30/22701822/conte-chelsea-have-yet-to-figure-out-how-to-use-lukaku

“He is a very specific striker. Bringing Lukaku into the box, he is dangerous. However, when he starts from midfield, he is incredibly quick. It is very difficult to find a player who is both a target man, but can also run from midfield.

[...]

“It’s a tactical situation too, a centre-forward who goes looking for the opposition defender, backs into him and lays it off for whoever is supporting him. That is a tactical approach used in basketball as well.

“The good thing about Romelu is that he can hurt you anywhere. If you keep him far away from the penalty area, he can kill you with his pace. If you have him in the box, he has the physicality to be a target man.”"

---

 

“During the game, there are moments when Lukaku needs to be turned on, but other than that he is one of the toughest forwards to play against, because he can do damage in any area of the pitch. If you have a centre-forward like that, you need to use him and I don’t think Chelsea have quite figured out how to use him yet.

“Last season, they didn’t have a proper centre-forward, so they rotated positions, whereas Romelu is a real reference point in attack. If they can figure out how to use Lukaku, then Chelsea can become the team to beat in the Champions League this season.”

Edited by Proud-Blue

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1 hour ago, Ibn Battuta said:

 But 0-0 or worse going into 60 minutes, and I could see this team sweating a lot. I don't think we have the character yet to overcome those situations as easily as we probably should. 

We have lost every game we have conceded first under Tuchel if my memory serves me right.

Edit: Drew with Soton away last season and beat City last season. The other 5 times we have lost.

Edited by CarefreeMuratcan

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52 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Have gone through our games since TT has taken over; out of the 8 matches where we have been in a losing position during the game, there has only been one instance where we have come back to win the game (that remarkable win against City in the PL, where Alonso scored the last minute winner). The other results have been 1 draw and 6 losses. 

Probably doesn't hold much weight, just an interesting stat for the stat junkies.

Interesting.  This is in line with what I would expect though for last year, given how we close the game down, and allow few goals at either end.  That makes the value of each goal much greater than in an open game, so first to score has a huge advantage.
The exception, the WBA 2-5, was an example where we actively chased the game and opened it up- it was a disaster and I can see why TT didn't ask us to do that against say City or Juve this week.

This season we have played more freely against most clubs than last.  I guess that is because the goal is PL title and not CL place.  And Lukaku will play his role in that.
No shame in tightening it up in a 4-team mini-league or our rivals in a 3 horse title race.

 

21 minutes ago, Proud-Blue said:

Interesting views from Conte about the way we're using Lukaku. https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2021/9/30/22701822/conte-chelsea-have-yet-to-figure-out-how-to-use-lukaku

...

“Last season, they didn’t have a proper centre-forward, so they rotated positions, whereas Romelu is a real reference point in attack. If they can figure out how to use Lukaku, then Chelsea can become the team to beat in the Champions League this season.”

Yes.  Interesting comments from the man who knows Lukaku and invented our 343 system.   I have said that our No 10 issues are mostly about changing roles from a fluid rotating three to playing in a fixed 10 pair which makes it more predictable for defenders and sometimes as a single 10.   Lukaku's role hasn't changed or got harder since Inter, the learning experience is for the 10s.

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Blue Rod   
4 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

I largely agree with what you're saying about Havertz. We paid way too much for him and this stuff about him being a "generational talent" is just ludicrous!

I'm really just trying to look at what positives I can think of with our midfield and strikers, and the technical ability of some of them is the only positive I can come up with.

Lukaku and Werner just do not have the basic technical talent required for a top Premier League team. They wouldn't get in Man City's second eleven.

What a mess were in when we have fans saying a hundred million pound player should not be played against the better teams. I've never read or heard that said about an expensive player in my life. He's the same flat track donkey he's always been and the sooner the club bites the bullet and gets rid the better!

The same goes for Kovacic and Jorginho. They just do not give us enough!

Fortunately, we have a string of easy games coming up (on paper) and I have no doubt we'll pick up a decent amount of points and everyone will think everything is back on track for a title challenge, when all the points will do is paper over the glaring cracks in the team and its style of play.

 

 

I must say I'm surprised that a modern and technically savvy coach like TT would opt for a No 9 of Lukaku's type. I personally consider that kind of player to be a luxury or a waste in the modern game even when they are playing in their best forms. You are developing your attacks minus one player. And often the ball that gets to the No 9 is not good for anything. It's so easy to shut out the route to the striker and good teams do it 99 out of 100 times.

When Havertz and Werner arrived, I was a little bit disappointed that we didn't spend some of that money instead to strengthen Kante - Jorginho - Kovacic position. And this was before the two Germans turned out as they have. As far as creating something goes, I can’t think of other top team in Europe where the so-called No 6's ceeate as little as ours. 

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2 hours ago, Ibn Battuta said:

Against City, Havertz should have started, but against Juve? Surely Werner was the much better solution. Especially when you pair them with marksman Ziyech who is excellent at hitting moving targets. What is the point of him if he is to play low probability passes to our slowest wing backs or precision passes to Havertz and Lukaku in positions where they can’t hurt the opposition? Baffling stuff honestly.

Switch the team selection for these two games and I think our chances of winning or drawing go up considerably. But...

Football is interesting isn't it? I would argue the complete opposite, at least in theory. Werner makes much more sense against City who you imagine would play a high line and push up their fullbacks giving Timo loads of space to run in behind and work the channels. Juve basically played like a champagne Burnley at times last night - deep block and everyone behind the ball that's where you need to pick up clever pockets of space to pull people out of position and be great technically in the tight spaces which is exactly what Havertz should be doing.

Tuchel may have made some mistakes but these selections aren't it IMO.

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10 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

Football is interesting isn't it? I would argue the complete opposite, at least in theory. Werner makes much more sense against City who you imagine would play a high line and push up their fullbacks giving Timo loads of space to run in behind and work the channels. Juve basically played like a champagne Burnley at times last night - deep block and everyone behind the ball that's where you need to pick up clever pockets of space to pull people out of position and be great technically in the tight spaces which is exactly what Havertz should be doing.

Tuchel may have made some mistakes but these selections aren't it IMO.

Yes, it is very subjective. My view is simple. Against Italian sides you always choose speed (Werner) over cleverness (Havertz), because they are masters at cleverness but rarely can handle dynamic speed. Bonucci and De Light would hate to face Werner. Throw at them what they ain’t used to. They are build to deal with the Girouds and Dzekos of the world, which is probably why they get eliminated so early in European games. 
 

My view against City is also simple. They have tremendous speed themselves. Doesn’t make sense to use Werner when his primary attribute is nullified. Also, against a team that gives you maybe two chances a game I will not choose to have Werner for those two chances. Juve would not concede lots of chances but after being run at for 70 minutes, we would have good chances at the end of games. 

Edited by Ibn Battuta
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Diddymen   
37 minutes ago, Blue Rod said:

I must say I'm surprised that a modern and technically savvy coach like TT would opt for a No 9 of Lukaku's type. I personally consider that kind of player to be a luxury or a waste in the modern game even when they are playing in their best forms. You are developing your attacks minus one player. And often the ball that gets to the No 9 is not good for anything. It's so easy to shut out the route to the striker and good teams do it 99 out of 100 times.

I agree 100% on this. 

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