JaneB

Chelsea 3 Southampton 1

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1 minute ago, exiledblue said:

Cameos this season? Barkley has only played 10 mins in prem and a little more in the CL so not a lot to judge on. Likewise RLC but I think he looks much more composed

Lukaku, I fear is a distraction to the way we won last season. He still has no first touch and if continues being unable to influence this type of game we have bought the Lukaku who failed at Utd

Barkley looked good in his short pre season games and his two short cameo's. What I'm getting at is I don't get all the negative criticism he gets. I've always viewed him as a good squad player and worthy to be in or around the team/squad. Same with RLC. I agree completely with Lukaku. I had the same discussion in the pub today before the game with several other fans. Don't think anyone was overwhelmed with the signing, at least who I've spoken to. Last season our shape was so good, in fact we had become the blueprint for other teams to follow. Now we seem to have changed that winning formula. Just feels like we can lose now whereas last season I think we all felt that wasn't possible

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For all of Lukaku's 'non-involvement', he:

  1. Scored a goal which was only marginally offside;
  2. Should have got an assist for Werner, which was only denied by a great save by McCarthy / terrible shot by Werner. Lukaku held that ball well and cleverly backheeled it in to Werner's path; and
  3. Hit the post from Azpi's cross at the end (which he should've scored) and eventually resulted in Chilwell's goal.

It does frustrate me seeing him whine / gesture at his own teammates every time things don't go his way, but I would say his involvement in the 3 events above is just about satisfactory for me.

Edited by Sideshow Luiz

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1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Staggeringly poor decision for the ruled-out goal. Not whether or not it was a foul, just whether or not to apply VAR at all. Found the use of VAR for the red very annoying, too; if it's obvious, it doesn't take that long.

Hudson-Odoi did what he does whenever he plays, so I'd be surprised if he's involved in the next few weeks. Loftus-Cheek was better but I don't think did much to break up the existing pecking order. 

Real shame Chilwell made such a clanger of a challenge, because he was otherwise very, very good and the best of those reintroduced.

Great pass by Barkley for Werner's goal, after he'd made a dreadful pass forward about 2 seconds after coming on. We needed someone looking up and taking risks early so he worked but I think is someway off a redemption. 

Main thought, though ... Fair play to Timo for still instantly celebrating every time the ball crosses the line, I'd be a more tentative in his shoes by now!

Agree on all points other than RLC; think he has done enough for Tuchel to consider starting him in future games. Will be interesting to hear Droy's take on his performance too.

I thought he brought a big physical presence to the midfield - for all of Jorginho's and Kovacic's qualities, they are terrible at any 50/50s or aerial duels. 

RLC also made his trademark surging / direct runs from midfield, but too many a time he messed up the final, simple pass, which was very frustrating. He does add a different dimension  to Jorgi / Kova / Kante though and I think Tuchel will consider that for future games.

Edited by Sideshow Luiz

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Oddly enough for a team that scored 5 and conceded yet another, I have to say our back 3 were absolutely terrific.  Monster.  Every time the ball got past our CM2 or WBs (and it was quite often) the ball just got swallowed up by these demons.  Stunning concentration and readiness to pounce.

3 goals conceded, 2 pens and one from a corner.  15 goals scored - we do know how to get goals.  12 different goalscorers. 
No penalties for in any comp if I recall - which is a shame because we seem to be pretty good at penalty shoot-outs.

Pleased for Werner.  He now has 13 Chelsea goals and 16 disallowed goals for us.
It looked awkward because it was.  yes we got an early goal from a corner which was a help.  But Southampton clearly had no intention of making a game of it until the last 15 ins.  Then they got a goal somewhat out of nothing, so played the whole 90 mins trying to prevent us from scoring.
Yet we got 5.

The pen - I think Chilwell wanted to play the older and wiser player, made a guess that Livramento would cut in and readied for that, made a rash lunge too late which could only have lead to a pen and so missed the smart move, which was just to leave him.  Rudiger was already in a covering position.  Reminds of the last time Chilwell (and Mount) wanted to elder brother with a young Academy player - that didn't work out well either.

Ref-watch.  Of the big decisions, the off-side goal and the penalty were clearly right.  The over the line goal he did give, though he gets a lot of help with that now.  19 seconds was the Azpi foul to goal time lag.  Certainly a foul.  I'm about 60/40 in favour of that being let go, but I'm not going to worry about it.
 

16 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

For all of Lukaku's 'non-involvement', he:

  1. Scored a goal which was only marginally offside;
  2. Should have got an assist for Werner, which was only denied by a great save by McCarthy / terrible shot by Werner. Lukaku held that ball well and cleverly backheeled it in to Werner's path; and
  3. Hit the post from Azpi's cross at the end (which he should've scored) and eventually resulted in Chilwell's goal.

It does frustrate me seeing him whine / gesture at his own teammates every time things don't go his way, but I would say his involvement in the 3 events above is just about satisfactory for me.

Yeah - things are going great and we are for now top of the league, but people want reasons to be unhappy.  Lukaku is doing fine.
And on whining - JFH.  it is what proper strikers do.

2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Hudson-Odoi did what he does whenever he plays, so I'd be surprised if he's involved in the next few weeks. Loftus-Cheek was better but I don't think did much to break up the existing pecking order. 

Real shame Chilwell made such a clanger of a challenge, because he was otherwise very, very good and the best of those reintroduced.

Great pass by Barkley for Werner's goal, after he'd made a dreadful pass forward about 2 seconds after coming on. We needed someone looking up and taking risks early so he worked but I think is someway off a redemption. 

Main thought, though ... Fair play to Timo for still instantly celebrating every time the ball crosses the line, I'd be a more tentative in his shoes by now!

CHO was better than he has been, but I can't see any of the senior players worrying about him right now.
Other than Lukaku + 2 pace merchants seemed effective if not pretty.  But Werner will be the beneficiary there.

Chilwell was fine other than his moment of madness.  And he takes fine corners.  He often took up very central positions (sometimes with a 10 out wide) which suggests he has been talking the game through with TT.  And of course par excellence in the WB role was Azpi again.  His first touch crosses are terriffic.

My commentary (Spackman?) pointed out the wasted opportunity by Barkley too.  But of course TT had been lecturing him moments before.  So the surprise to me was not the first pass to Azpi, but that after the usual dressing down by Lukaku he could still remember TT's instructions a few mins later and played the same ball out wide to Azpi for Werner's goal.

 

5 hours ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

RLC has added some much needed grit to our midfield; we are actually winning 50/50s for once.

5 hours ago, exiledblue said:

Playing well, I like RLC, the way he moves reminds me of Ballack

There was a lot good with RLC's play today, but grit wasn't in it.  Nor was looking like Ballack unless you mean over muscled for a footballer. And certainly not winning 50/50s in the way Jorginho or Kante or Kovacic do.  
Funnily the best thing he did was win the cross from the corner to get an assist for Chalobah.  Tall and jumped high.  More evidence he should be a striker.

 

34 minutes ago, Erland Johnson said:

Barkley looked good in his short pre season games and his two short cameo's. What I'm getting at is I don't get all the negative criticism he gets. I've always viewed him as a good squad player and worthy to be in or around the team/squad. Same with RLC. I agree completely with Lukaku.

I agree they have looked OK, certainly better than they did under Sarri or Lampard (though you could say that about almost all of the players).  Barkley was good today.
But A, they don't match up with our first choice CMs or AMs
B they don't look like players you'd keep on as soon as you are defending a lead rather than playing with 60+% possession against 10 men
C they are big names that need to be big fish in a small pond.  It is one thing keeping Chalobah on the sidelines, getting say 10 PL/CL starts all season.  Or Kepa who seems accepting of his role.  But I'm not sure it is good for Barkley or RLC, and I fear that may lead to issues in months to come.

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57 minutes ago, Erland Johnson said:

Barkley looked good in his short pre season games and his two short cameo's. What I'm getting at is I don't get all the negative criticism he gets. I've always viewed him as a good squad player and worthy to be in or around the team/squad. Same with RLC. I agree completely with Lukaku. I had the same discussion in the pub today before the game with several other fans. Don't think anyone was overwhelmed with the signing, at least who I've spoken to. Last season our shape was so good, in fact we had become the blueprint for other teams to follow. Now we seem to have changed that winning formula. Just feels like we can lose now whereas last season I think we all felt that wasn't possible

Fortunately our defence remains strong. 2 pens, 1 massively deflected shot and a goal after 15 seconds. So few I remember them all

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1 hour ago, bONes said:

Yeah. Do you think it’s just incompetence or corruption?

Is hate to think it’s corruption but when an England ref officiates a CL or Euro game, they tend to be much more fair in their work. In some of those games, I ask myself whether it’s the same incompetent referee from England. Mike Oliver is a good example. 

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1 hour ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

For all of Lukaku's 'non-involvement', he:

  1. Scored a goal which was only marginally offside;
  2. Should have got an assist for Werner, which was only denied by a great save by McCarthy / terrible shot by Werner. Lukaku held that ball well and cleverly backheeled it in to Werner's path; and
  3. Hit the post from Azpi's cross at the end (which he should've scored) and eventually resulted in Chilwell's goal.

It does frustrate me seeing him whine / gesture at his own teammates every time things don't go his way, but I would say his involvement in the 3 events above is just about satisfactory for me.

Thanks. For a minute I was wondering whether I watched a different game. Lukaku on this team gives us a different dimension. Last season we drew home and away against Southampton and lost to Arsenal at home: 2pts from those 3 games. We already have 6pts out of 2 of those fixtures. 
 

Lukaku will score a lot of goals for us so I’m not concerned. He will also keep defenders busy by his physique, size and speed. What we need is pacy players around him with intelligence to move into dangerous positions around Lukaku and decisiveness to pick out the right pass at the right time. Kai & Ziyech haven’t looked the part. Werner, Mount and possibly Pulisic better fit the description albeit with varying weakness concerns as well. Nonetheless it’s a work in progress. 
 

Lastly, I don’t put any meaning into Lukaku always throwing up his hands: it’s a bad habit he’s always had since Chelsea first signed him at 18. 

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Diddymen   

Strange performance from us. 

It felt much more like a Lampard performance than TT's usual disciplined and controlled pressing set-up. Possibly more fluid and entertaining, but then it wasn't a surprise that Saints were allowed to get into dangerous positions, and equalised. 

The red card helped us significantly. 

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26 minutes ago, MikelBlue said:

Is hate to think it’s corruption but when an England ref officiates a CL or Euro game, they tend to be much more fair in their work. In some of those games, I ask myself whether it’s the same incompetent referee from England. Mike Oliver is a good example. 

It is a mind set created by all the PMGOL members getting together on a Monday and telling each other that all the complaints are just from bad losers.  That and a combined preference for Man U and Liverpool which is so inbuilt that they don't even recognise it.
It is not corruption, it is not even really incompetence.  It is the result of a really bad set up in England and too much independence from the FA.

Of course they are better in Europe - they have no axes to grind.

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Holymoly   

And of course, nothing on MOTD about the VAR decision on Werner'a goal.

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