JaneB

Chelsea 1 Burnley 1

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1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Very little to complain about other than the result. I thought our general play was absolutely fantastic, and very few of the chances not converted were not converted because of our failings, and were instead excellent keeping and defending. I thought Burnley played really well, relative to who they are and what they do; they had the bravery to hold a line in our half and press when needed, and it forced some brilliant passing and moving from us.

Yup

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

I've seen a lot of praise for Barkley but think he showed exactly what we already know of him. Lots of good general play, consistently made a completely unnecessary mess of any key moments he found himself in by attempting a trick or shot that was not on. 

Same here.  I don't think he was supposed to be the only playmaker dropping off the front 3.  For 10 minutes all 3 did it in rotation then Barkley wouldn't move from there.  RLC came on and was mobile - playing it like CHO (or as Barkley IMO should).
And Barkley's refusal to pass from positions which aren't quite working for him lead to him taking 15 touches and going around in circles with momentum becoming zero.
It is like he is trying to put a showreel together rather than a run of matches (which I kind of understand).  CHO and RLC are playing for TT.

 

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Jasonb   
1 hour ago, chelboy said:

The RLC for Barkley was odd. I saw it as slightly defensive and slowed our momentum. Barkley was taking up good positions playing a similar role to what Mount does, RLC plays more of a Kova role driving from deep. When he came on we had a flat three midfield with CHO and Havertz up top. If RLC was to come on it should have been for Kante and Mount for Barkley. Perhaps TT wanted RLC to play higher or maybe he wanted a flat 3 midfield but I couldn’t really tell what RLC was meant to be doing. He doesn’t look as comfortable playing in between the lines as he looks playing deeper. 

I also thought the RLC sub was strange, RLC is good in the middle of the pitch yet don't see him scoring in a packed penalty area.

Perhaps TT was hoping for a headed goal.

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24 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Yup

Same here.  I don't think he was supposed to be the only playmaker dropping off the front 3.  For 10 minutes all 3 did it in rotation then Barkley wouldn't move from there.  RLC came on and was mobile - playing it like CHO (or as Barkley IMO should).
And Barkley's refusal to pass from positions which aren't quite working for him lead to him taking 15 touches and going around in circles with momentum becoming zero.
It is like he is trying to put a showreel together rather than a run of matches (which I kind of understand).  CHO and RLC are playing for TT.

 

Yes 

When Tuchel praises Barkley for his contribution and says he deserves his chance I do wish he'd run it by you first , it'd certainly save all the anguish .

Barkley is far from perfect but he is literally one of our only players who realises that passing can occur vertically as well as on the horizontal plane and from reports I've read was generally considered our best player yesterday.

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7 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

When Tuchel praises Barkley for his contribution and says he deserves his chance I do wish he'd run it by you first , it'd certainly save all the anguish .

Did he say that post match as well?

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Blue Rod   
1 hour ago, chelboy said:

It seemed like Barkley was in the middle with Havertz left and CHO right. Sometimes it became a double 9 with Havertz and CHO. I was surprised we didn’t use CHO on the left more often in the game. James was fine on the right but I felt Chilwell was struggling at times and perhaps a winger cutting in could have created space for him. Most of the time it seemed to be Havertz that was nearest to Chilwell but it wasn’t helping his game, we needed someone to drag their RB and give Chilwell space to overlap. 
 

As for the front three, I think TT sees Lukaku and Mount as starters for sure. Third forward is the one that’s still up for grabs. Having a dribbler in the forward positions does make us unpredictable at times. It helps with ball progression as we don’t always have to make the right pass to

Mount and Lukaku is fine. CHO and James posses the best crosses in the team. So as we are increasingly depending on crosses, CHO should play. The worst possible combination is the one that includes both Lukaku and Havertz.

Having wing backs leading the attacks down the flanks is fine when you're in control of possession.  But even in such situations you still need creativity. You could see the difference between James and Chilwell.

When your opponents start attacking, and doing it so late in the game, it's a different situation. Asking your tired wing backs to carry on bumping up and down plus defend those attacks  is unnecessary especially when you have CHO and Barkley almost wasted in the middle. You could see James tiring, and could also see Burnley taking advantage of it.

The rejigging that you mentioned earlier should have taken place Long before the Burnley equaliser. CHO on the left, and Pulisic on the right, leaving James and Chilwell to do the defending, and we could have had a complete different ending to the game

I feel sorry for CHO. Just when you think he has found a position that he can develop in, he gets moved again. We were not facing Bayern Munich or Man City, so I dont know why we neded this elaborate new formation. Yes, we did create chances, but we could done better with a simpler set up.

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2 hours ago, chelboy said:

The RLC for Barkley was odd. I saw it as slightly defensive and slowed our momentum. Barkley was taking up good positions playing a similar role to what Mount does, RLC plays more of a Kova role driving from deep. When he came on we had a flat three midfield with CHO and Havertz up top. If RLC was to come on it should have been for Kante and Mount for Barkley. Perhaps TT wanted RLC to play higher or maybe he wanted a flat 3 midfield but I couldn’t really tell what RLC was meant to be doing. He doesn’t look as comfortable playing in between the lines as he looks playing deeper. 

Yes I interpreted as more of a defensive change. 

Edited by CarefreeMuratcan

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26 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Barkley is far from perfect but he is literally one of our only players who realises that passing can occur vertically as well as on the horizontal plane and from reports I've read was generally considered our best player yesterday.

Lots of people will have liked what they saw, because it was a real "Roy of the Rovers" type of performance. In isolation, keeping hold of the ball while dribbling forward and holding off challenges from 2 or 3 players is impressive, tbf. The issue is ... He didn't need to and shouldn't have done that, and missed simple early passes that would have been far more helpful in opening Burnley up.

We all know Tuchel isn't going to pick Barkley if and when he has other players back, so should really be considering that alongside any praise Tuchel offers him. Tuchel seems particularly good at keeping the fringe players motivated and part of a collective, but he's still going to pick from a core of 15 or so of them when he can.

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8 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Lots of people will have liked what they saw, because it was a real "Roy of the Rovers" type of performance. In isolation, keeping hold of the ball while dribbling forward and holding off challenges from 2 or 3 players is impressive, tbf. The issue is ... He didn't need to and shouldn't have done that, and missed simple early passes that would have been far more helpful in opening Burnley up.

Grealish imitation stuff, playing for free kicks.

9 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

We all know Tuchel isn't going to pick Barkley if and when he has other players back, so should really be considering that alongside any praise Tuchel offers him. Tuchel seems particularly good at keeping the fringe players motivated and part of a collective, but he's still going to pick from a core of 15 or so of them when he can.

Context is a really useful thing to ignore sometimes  :)

I agree about the core.  The calendar says that this period between international games was when big players would be playing once a week, and all the others would get trialled to see what they might offer later on.  We have seen casting appearances for the roles of next spring's understudies.

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SabCFC   

Thought yesterday was our best performance of the season. Sure, we've played well against better opposition, mainly Spurs, Arsenal or even Southampton, but this was a complete 90 minutes performance that shows we're in the right direction in terms of the process. You can control performance, you can't always control results. 

I think it's a testament to TT that he's getting this type of performances even while including "rotation" players in attack. That's a good sign. I believe we can have a big advantage in the next few months in terms of freshness. Some of the top teams are playing the same attackers every game (especially Liverpool and United), and I honestly believe that catches up to them (Chelsea have been a victim of that in the past).

I have to say, the month started with a terrible performance at Brentford and I feel like we've made huge progress since - in terms of finding a style of play that suits this season's personnel more than last season, and it should be now easier to integrate Lukaku back in the team. We have better use of width, of double-teaming on the wings (James+CHO which can be reproduced  with Werner+Azpi like v Southampton), we've created chances for Havertz almost every game, we've seen a variation of WBs playing at 8s and how they can more fluidly switch things up during the game without needing live game instructions, how to exploit better a variation of 3-1-6 against extreme low blocks (Newcastle, Malmo) or 3-2-1-4 with one number 10 and a split striker pairing like against Burnley, and the nice tweak against Malmo of having two right-sided attackers and two left-sided attackers for more directness and quicker deliveries. 

This to say, we'll have more difficult games after the break but TT has gathered a lot more film and data for multiple tactical plans he's tried. For example, City really hurt United yesterday with the space between the CBs and FBs that Utd were incapable of defending, as well as low crosses which could have led to multiple own goals. This is something he can exploit with already existing, proven solutions.

I really liked the idea of a single 10 with a split striker pairing with CHO even more advanced than Havertz, creating lots of space for James on the right. This was also the case last season in TT's second game. At HT, he subbed off Tammy, played Mount as the 10 - Pulisic and Werner upfront and we created a lot more. 

I can only imagine what a fit Mount would have done with the space generated for Barkley. Mount always keeps the momentum going for quick passing moves. Let's hope he can finally kickstart his season for good after the break.

One regret I have for the game yesterday were the late changes. I felt all of Barkley, CHO & Havertz were knackered after the hour mark and our press faltered just before the equaliser. It forced James to drop deeper instead of pressing the FB, which left them time to get a few crosses/lobbed passes behind the offside trap. TT needs to be proactive with his changes; especially if you lose that pressing intensity when the lead is tight. 

One interesting stat - every outfield player except Kanté had a shot yesterday. We weren't clinical, but this shows how every player can score. Rudiger, Christensen, Silva even Jorginho had great chances on set-pieces (very good routines, Anthony Barry is doing a great job, I heard Utd got a guy from the Chelsea academy for set-pieces and they haven't score one yet. Guess this answers why we went for the outside hire), Havertz/Barkley/CHO had chances; and funnily enough, on the CHO & Barkley chances - James and Chilwell were completely unmarked and with a great angle closer to goal. Don't change what works, WBs are going to have better chances inside the box it's the design of the system and we should not feel defensive about it.

 

 

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Rob B   
6 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Did he say that post match as well?

He said this: 

If you're watching the training then you see that Ross deserved to start,’ 

‘We changed a bit the shape in the front three today and played with a number 10 position behind the number six for Burnley. We saw a perfect position for Ross to start.
‘He has waited a long time and he had a huge impact on our matches when he came on. He played a good game and this was not a gift, he deserved to start.’

 

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