JaneB

Leicester City 0 Chelsea 3

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Floyd25   

Great win today, Kante is on another planet. Shame Chilly kept running offside near the end but can’t have it all, fantastic performance. 

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Bison   
10 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

with 2.

Havertz is going to be a pure 9 soon IMO.  Getting more physical all the time while maintaining the silky skills.

Everything is so wonderful with Chelsea right now, I need a big shot of schadenfreude to maintain balance.
Thanks Claudio.

I wish the club/manager had the foresight to see which way his development was going. The money spent on Lukaku could have been used elsewhere or set aside for a real difference maker.

We were absolutely dominant yesterday and the first half was almost as good as I've seen us in a very long time. How much does Havertz mobility and ability to press from the front help? A lot. I really believe we don't get that kind of performance yesterday with Lukaku leading the line.

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12 hours ago, paulw66 said:

And we finished 4th

we finished 4th because we started so badly under Lamps

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2 hours ago, Bison said:

I wish the club/manager had the foresight to see which way his development was going. The money spent on Lukaku could have been used elsewhere or set aside for a real difference maker.

I am sure that when they bought a 6'3" German who already had 46 goals but was barely 21, the club were pretty sure he would end up as a CF. Just a question of when his strength would match his height. 

But we do need 2 CF candidates.  I'm happy with Lukaku.

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2 hours ago, Bison said:

I wish the club/manager had the foresight to see which way his development was going. The money spent on Lukaku could have been used elsewhere or set aside for a real difference maker.

We were absolutely dominant yesterday and the first half was almost as good as I've seen us in a very long time. How much does Havertz mobility and ability to press from the front help? A lot. I really believe we don't get that kind of performance yesterday with Lukaku leading the line.

Couldn't agree more about Lukaku and that we should never have bought him.

He would look like a fish out of water in the this team and it would be a terrible, backward step to go back to having him start games and be the predictable focul point of our attack, lazily standing there pointing fingers to where he wants the ball played. 

A modern team with good movement and technical ability is the way to seriously compete with City and Liverpool and that means no room for a player like Lukaku. Certainly not as first choice.

 

As for the match.

Possibly the best league performance under TT and 5-0 would have been a better reflection of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

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chelboy   
2 hours ago, Bison said:

I wish the club/manager had the foresight to see which way his development was going. The money spent on Lukaku could have been used elsewhere or set aside for a real difference maker.

 

Elsewhere like where? Our no.1 priority was clearly a striker. Pretty much everyone on here wanted a striker, they just didn’t get the striker they wanted. Lukaku was the best that was available in the market.

 

13 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I am sure that when they bought a 6'3" German who already had 46 goals but was barely 21, the club were pretty sure he would end up as a CF. Just a question of when his strength would match his height. 

 

I’m not sure strength is the problem. It’s how reliable of a goal scorer he can be. The truth is if Werner and Havertz were slapping in goals we wouldn’t have even looked towards Lukaku’s direction.

I’m enjoying the team getting goals from every position but I do wonder how long some of the defenders/wingbacks can keep up such good G/A records for. There is likely to be a drop off eventually from some of them and then we might start looking more to the forwards to be those reliable goal scorers that we expect. If we are to challenge for the PL every year then one of those front three forwards has to be a good reliable goal scorer. I know City won last year with a top scorer of 13 goals but there was a significant drop off in goals scored and points from them. What they did last year wouldn’t have been enough to win in the previous four seasons.  I see City finishing with less points this season if they don’t buy a striker. 
 

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SabCFC   

I don't understand this revisionism with Lukaku, he actually won us crucial points early in the season. Arsenal, Villa, Zenith he was huge and his goals were match-winning really. We also played well with Lukaku at Liverpool or at Spurs.

The thing with Lukaku is he scores 50% of his chances and that's a trend of his entire career, that means we have someone who will punish teams. He actually almost did it at Juve even when we weren't great, he really doesn't need much to score and that's a big, big asset when you're chasing a game, which we will eventually find ourselves in.

The improved performances aren't due to no Lukaku or no Werner  - both of them played against Southampton and that was actually a very good performance from the team with Werner getting a goal and Lukaku almost getting one in the buildup to Chilwell's goal at the end.

I think having two reliable 9s with Lukaku & Havertz will be beneficial this season, especially when we'll be chasing a game. Actually, add Pulisic to the lot, he has incredible off the ball movement in the box and can be a different type of 9 as well.

Our performances have improved by keeping a core at the back of: Rudiger, T. Silva and Jorginho. These 3 give us complete control of the possession for one. Then we have improved our intensity *as a team* - that's not dependent on individuals, it's about everyone being in a similar good physical shape after a summer of international football and truncated preseason. One interesting stat that shows this is that the team has been running more and more Kms per game in the Champions League (so from September to November), proof of simply getting at the peak of the physical shape as I'm guessing it was planned. I remember some Chelsea teams that peaked in September ... only to look completely knackered in November, because of light summer training sessions. I'm guessing this was the opposite, some heavy conditioning in the summer so that the sessions can be lighter physically during the season. Chilwell taking time to get back to shape, Mount's slow start are proof of that IMO - I'll be guessing the Lukaku we've seen wasn't at his physical best after playing so much in the summer and barely getting time to be prepared specifically for this season.

The team also seems to have fully absorbed the more sophisticated tactical tweaks introduced this season - Chilwell & James in inverted positions when we look to beat the press, the interchanging of the positions in attack, the patterns of play (Kanté mentioned they have a "circuit" with him and James to French TV yesterday about his goal), the set-piece routines (Rudiger said this was a weakness of Leicester they've analysed - they conceded the same goal against Arsenal) ... Everyone is more comfortable now from a tactical POV and in better shape physically. The rotation will be a lot more fluid in attack as consequence.

Even last season, we were a different team between February and April. Including specific individual performances, so it's a bit wild to me to say x or y player won't fit. At some point, we were made to believe that Havertz would never fit PL football as he's not physical enough or too lazy.

Anyway, back to the game:

Complete dominance in the first half, as dominant as you’ll see City & Liverpool at their peak. The 2nd half was quieter but even we let them have a bit more of the ball, we were still hurting them on attack. T. Silva, Rudiger  & Jorginho with 10/10 performances. They are the heart and the head of this team.

Still think this is 70% post-COVID Kanté, by the way. But it's enough to demolish N'didi & Soumaré. He's not even in CL final form.

Just like in the FA Cup, Leicester were only dangerous on long shots, wherever Rodgers goes, TT has his number tactically.

A lot of flak usually goes to Pulisic & Ziyech. I honestly can't comprehend that fans want the club to ship them off so fast, it's a bit absurd. Especially in the case of Pulisic, who's only 22-23 and clearly has a gear or two in him (which we've seen - basically carried the team to Top 4 post-lockdown when Lampard dropped any pretence of tactical solutions and reverted to One Route football), the same set of fans angry with the club for selling Salah or KDB too soon I suppose.

The starting front 3 did all the hard work for 60 minutes — pressing hard (Mount), off the ball movement (Havertz killed Evans), 1v1 isolation (CHO) then the subs got to play against tired legs. Space opened up, and they had lots of chances. This is why depth is so important. 

City's attackers aren't all on fire all the time, quite a similar story actually. City fans were clamouring for Sterling to be sold, for Jesus to be sold, for Mahrez to be sold, at multiple points last season. Yet it's that rotation that got them to be in contention for 4 titles. It hurts players individually but it benefits a team's chances of winning titles. 

It's actually how we won the Champions League as well, multiple solutions & fresh legs at each stage: Giroud/Werner/Ziyech v Atletico, Mount/Pulisic v Porto, Pulisic/Havetz/Werner v Real Madrid. Then we got to pick the most in form and in sync for the final. 

Very encouraging signs from Ziyech since the Newcastle game, he picks a pass like no one else. It's obvious the freak shoulder injury bothered him and stifled him in his freedom of movement (which TT kept mentioning, but fans quick to slag off players kept ignoring). I can't believe anyone would question his quality as a football player, it's about form and that can be regained. He's an excellent option as the playmaker/inside forward hybrid role that Mount provides.

Mount didn't look completely fit, TT mentioned he has lost some weight. So it will take time for him to be back at his absolute best as he's very much a rhythm type of player, hopefully fans are patient ...

Pulisic as a late number 9 option is something that can really work. It limits his heroballing, and forces him to focus on movement, he's elite at that. He crashes the goal like very few wingers with his speed can, a big asset. He has an instinct for goals too, that's huge for us.

The performance was really of very high standards. Just like Burnley, it's about replicating the performance and the results will follow.

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, chelboy said:

I’m not sure strength is the problem. It’s how reliable of a goal scorer he can be. The truth is if Werner and Havertz were slapping in goals we wouldn’t have even looked towards Lukaku’s direction.

No - we would have looked for a new CF anyway.  Tammy won't be that player for a few years (or at least that seems to be the conclusion of the club post TT, and it is a reasonable one).
Giroud was certainly off.  
I agree we might have looked for another Werner or Havertz rather than a main man.  But Lukaku has 3 goals in 7 PL starts, he is not doing badly yet.

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22 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

No - we would have looked for a new CF anyway.  Tammy won't be that player for a few years (or at least that seems to be the conclusion of the club post TT, and it is a reasonable one).
Giroud was certainly off.  
I agree we might have looked for another Werner or Havertz rather than a main man.  But Lukaku has 3 goals in 7 PL starts, he is not doing badly yet.

You dont pay 100 million for a striker and be satisfied with him "not doing badly."  He looked ok against a truly abysmal Arsenal reserve team, but apart from that he's looked bang average and nowhere near the world class forward we should expect for that kind of money. Our performaces with him in the team and more importantly, without him in team, have only reinforced my opinion that his signing was another hugely over priced panic buy.

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27 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

I don't understand this revisionism with Lukaku, he actually won us crucial points early in the season. Arsenal, Villa, Zenith he was huge and his goals were match-winning really. We also played well with Lukaku at Liverpool or at Spurs....

I think having two reliable 9s with Lukaku & Havertz will be beneficial this season, especially when we'll be chasing a game. Actually, add Pulisic to the lot, he has incredible off the ball movement in the box and can be a different type of 9 as well  (yes)

Our performances have improved by keeping a core at the back of: Rudiger, T. Silva and Jorginho.   (and we were truly awful when all 3 were rested against Brentford)

These 3 give us complete control of the possession for one. Then we have improved our intensity *as a team* - that's not dependent on individuals, it's about everyone being in a similar good physical shape after a summer of international football and truncated preseason. One interesting stat that shows this is that the team has been running more and more Kms per game in the Champions League (so from September to November), proof of simply getting at the peak of the physical shape as I'm guessing it was planned. I remember some Chelsea teams that peaked in September ... only to look completely knackered in November, because of light summer training sessions. I'm guessing this was the opposite, some heavy conditioning in the summer so that the sessions can be lighter physically during the season. Chilwell taking time to get back to shape, Mount's slow start are proof of that IMO - I'll be guessing the Lukaku we've seen wasn't at his physical best after playing so much in the summer and barely getting time to be prepared specifically for this season.

The team also seems to have fully absorbed the more sophisticated tactical tweaks introduced this season - Chilwell & James in inverted positions when we look to beat the press, the interchanging of the positions in attack, the patterns of play (Kanté mentioned they have a "circuit" with him and James to French TV yesterday about his goal), the set-piece routines (Rudiger said this was a weakness of Leicester they've analysed - they conceded the same goal against Arsenal) ..(even the commentator knew Leicester had conceded an identical goal to Arsenal - yet oddly Brendan Rogers seems not to have known.  We tried the same move 5 mins later and no one was picking up Rudiger.   What I like about the Rudiger goal was Jorginho very clearly blocking off another defender, Ndidy?, from challenging Rudiger to the point that VAR could have given a foul against him.  Planned.)

....Still think this is 70% post-COVID Kanté, by the way. But it's enough to demolish N'didi & Soumaré. He's not even in CL final form.....     (Leicester had 38% possession, Man City had 60%, little wonder he was so much better against City.  And he wouldn't have scored that goal last season.  I agree there is more to come from Kante but we will need him much more in the big games than the others.

...

A lot of flak usually goes to Pulisic & Ziyech. I honestly can't comprehend that fans want the club to ship them off so fast, it's a bit absurd. Especially in the case of Pulisic, who's only 22-23 and clearly has a gear or two in him (which we've seen - basically carried the team to Top 4 post-lockdown when Lampard dropped any pretence of tactical solutions and reverted to One Route football), the same set of fans angry with the club for selling Salah or KDB too soon I suppose.  (Pulisic and Ziyech were excellent when they came on.  After a front 3 of say Lukaku, Mount, Havertz, and say Werner 4th choice, having Pulisic, Ziyech, CHO (argue about pecking order amongst yourselves) in 5th 6th and 7th place is a true luxury.   And explains why we let Tammy and Giroud go.  After Conte went without buying an AM, we bought Pulisic, Ziyech, Werner, Havertz and have  completely turned the team around.

Very encouraging signs from Ziyech since the Newcastle game, he picks a pass like no one else.  yup

The performance was really of very high standards. Just like Burnley,   :)    it's about replicating the performance and the results will follow.

Full of insight again.
Italics added by me

It seems to me that that a lot more PL teams are dropping right off and playing negative games than before.  I suspect that these tactics are not so much for us, but have been developed over 3 or 4 years of playing Man City and at times Liverpool.  We have been promoted to the Top 2/3 category rather than have forced the change ourselves.

The good news is that it will make the season as a whole much less exhausting and allow us to rest key players such as Kante a lot more.  The bad news is that it may make it harder to pick it up for the big games when they arrive or (Brentford) get a grip on games when teams refuse to acknowledge the difference in status.

3 hours ago, chelboy said:

I’m enjoying the team getting goals from every position but I do wonder how long some of the defenders/wingbacks can keep up such good G/A records for.

Alonso got  6 Pl goals in 16/17 in this system.  Cahill got 6.  Moses 3.  Matic and Kante 2 between them.  The 5 man attack with the WBs works well.  Alonso/Chilwell are playing as well or better than the 16/17 Alonso.  And James is a big step up on Moses.

But see above - so long as teams play negatively against us, our strikers will struggle , we will get a ton of corners, and the WBs entering the box will get the best chances.
Teams that play more positively will get caught out at the back by our strikers - who do not lack pace.

 

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