JaneB

Chelsea 1 Manchester United 1

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51 minutes ago, Ro61 said:

he is so frustrating.

Absolutely.

51 minutes ago, Ro61 said:

He plays well in spurts and then looks completely amateurish.

This.

Which is why  he draws so much criticism. 

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8 hours ago, chelboy said:

People going in a bit hard on RLC. He was poor no doubt but don’t think he completely blew his chance. 

I've been very strong in my criticism of him, but I don't even think it's right that he was "poor". He just is not the player, in nature, that so many people seem to think he is. Most surprisingly among them, Tuchel. No one in that role is going to match Kante for quality and we have to just accept that, but Loftus-Cheek's qualities are those of a player who plays higher up the pitch, and he did nothing bad per se but nothing as well as the role he was in requires a player to do them.

I hope he has "blown" his chances of playing in a midfield two against anyone who is going to defend from the off against us (so all bar about 4 sides in the league), because he can't do that job well enough. His chances elsewhere ... Probably a better story.

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Bison   
7 hours ago, chelboy said:

I watch players like Diogo Jota and just think why couldn’t we get a lucky bargain like that? When they signed Jota over Werner many raised their eyebrows and even pool fans were questioning it but really it was a very smart decision. Jota is far more suited to the PL than Werner will ever be imo. Werner is a bit too limited to play in leagues like Serie A, La Liga or the PL. Bundesliga is the only top league I can see him performing at a high level. 

Liverpool did pay 40m for Jota so not exactly a bargain but I get your point. Jota already has 7 goals so far this season, meanwhile Werner has 7 goals in 43 Premier League appearances.

 

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chelboy   
8 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

All its taken is one  poor performance and some are saying he's blown it,  while Werner get starts after countless dire performances. What should never happen again is Loftus playing as a 6 in a 2 man midfield. TT should have known this was the  wrong set-up for Loftus.

Where should he play then? His good performances this season have come playing as a no.6. He’s not suited to play further forward. In further forward positions you have to do more sprints and I don’t think he has the legs for that. 

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Blue Rod   
8 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

All its taken is one  poor performance and some are saying he's blown it,  while Werner get starts after countless dire performances. What should never happen again is Loftus playing as a 6 in a 2 man midfield. TT should have known this was the  wrong set-up for Loftus.

Of course I was going over the top in saying RLC has blown his chance. Your quality cannot be defined by one performance. But as someone who always wishes he was judged fairly, I am now wondering what his real footballing skills are.

When you lack the technical ability, you can or must deploy energy to get yourself everywhere and make your presence felt. And for god's sake, he was standing in for Kante, who usually covers a lot of ground. Seeing RLC jog towards our 18 yd as Utd were attacking makes me wonder whether he really understands the role he was being asked to play. It was like someone has told him, you are playing in Kante's position, but don't bother with all that running that Kante does. 

As for Werner, I have already seen enough to form my opinion on him. I used to criticise Tammy for not timing his runs to meet the cross. Werner yesterday looked like he didn't even know that a cross might be coming. He was our poorest performer. 

Edited by Blue Rod

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chelboy   
10 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I've been very strong in my criticism of him, but I don't even think it's right that he was "poor". He just is not the player, in nature, that so many people seem to think he is. Most surprisingly among them, Tuchel. No one in that role is going to match Kante for quality and we have to just accept that, but Loftus-Cheek's qualities are those of a player who plays higher up the pitch, and he did nothing bad per se but nothing as well as the role he was in requires a player to do them.

I hope he has "blown" his chances of playing in a midfield two against anyone who is going to defend from the off against us (so all bar about 4 sides in the league), because he can't do that job well enough. His chances elsewhere ... Probably a better story.

I see him being good at driving with the ball and has very good ball control but when it comes to passing and shooting he isn’t that gifted imo. Yesterday just wasn’t suited for him as the midfield was very tight. He looked far more afraid going forward than he has done in recent games. He’s still a good option to have for now.

 

18 minutes ago, Bison said:

Liverpool did pay 40m for Jota so not exactly a bargain but I get your point. Jota already has 7 goals so far this season, meanwhile Werner has 7 goals in 43 Premier League appearances.

 

£40M feels like a bargain considering how much we spend on our forwards. His output has been way higher than I expected. 

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Bison   
35 minutes ago, chelboy said:

£40M feels like a bargain considering how much we spend on our forwards. His output has been way higher than I expected. 

True. Nearly 300m spent on the likes of Werner, Havertz, Pulisic, Lukaku and Ziyech and they have 8 Premier League goals between them this season. 29 for Jota, Mane, Firminho and Salah.

Does that group of Werner, Havertz, Pulisic, Lukaku and Ziyech get over/under 35 league goals for the season? I'd bet the under.

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Blue Rod   
55 minutes ago, chelboy said:

£40M feels like a bargain considering how much we spend on our forwards. His output has been way higher than I expected. 

I don’t think we should be measuring ourselves against ourselves. We'd only be creating our own league of mediocre overpriced strikers. We should compare our signings to similarly priced signings of other clubs. 

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3 hours ago, chelboy said:

Where should he play then? His good performances this season have come playing as a no.6. He’s not suited to play further forward. In further forward positions you have to do more sprints and I don’t think he has the legs for that. 

But not in a 2 midfield.

Yesterday's performance reminded of the awful performances of last season with Fulham, drifting around not really knowing what to do and worst of all looking disinterested. 

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Holymoly   

I see a fair bit of criticism for certain players in this thread after one bad result:

CHO flatters to deceive however remember he is just 21 years old and still has things to learn. It says enough that he was the only forward running with the ball however his final pass or decision was often left wanting.

RLC was aimless however I fear this is partly because he was being paired with Jorginho. These two players will never compliment each other and the sooner Kante is back, the better. It was a poor game from him yesterday and I hope it doesn't damage his fragile confidence moving forward as we're becoming very thin in midfield.

Jorginho will always be defended by Droy and fair enough it took balls to step up for the penalty but his reaction to losing the ball for the opening goal was nothing short of appalling. To just stand still and put his head in his hands while Chalobah and Alonso raced past him trying to get back to help Mendy was emblematic of why so many of us have our doubts about him. He is a player who stands on the shoulders of those around him. He has never been an influencer of games and in this match he showed that his style of play does not turn the tide, he is not a goal threat and the players in front of him on Sunday provided little menace for him to direct.

It made a big difference when the substitutions were made and in the context of the game and the opponents it made you wonder why some of those players weren't on the pitch to begin with. TT has to take some blame here as the game was crying out for the energy of Mount and the goal threat of Pulisic/Lukaku. We missed Chilwell who would have run at the defense, and Kante who would have shored up jorginho but I feel just to replace like with like position wise was a mistake and it may have been better to change the formation slightly to allow Mount to help out in midfield and transition into attack. As it was we kind of played with a back four with James on the wing but ultimately there was no one in the middle to latch on to his crosses.

We've got a number of important games coming up now with some historically tricky opponents and we can't afford to get any more injuries otherwise we will need to give some serious thought to calling back Gallagher and Gilmour. We also need to devise a way to fit the energy of Mount back in the side as wing backs aside we're really not offering much threat.

 

 

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