Chelsea 1 Manchester United 1

[boratsbrother]

18 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

My point was not whether we should play Alonso, but rather who would be back up if he is injured. Azpi is the obvious choice but, given Maatsen and Emerson are on loan, we should consider CHO (his defensive work is much improved) or even Harvey Vale if TT thinks he is ready.

CHO is finally starting to show consisteny and on his way to nailing down his place in the starting 11. Imo, it would do more harm than good to put him back into a role where he is half the player. We can get by with Alonso and Azpi.

[chara]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:43 AM, chara said:

NO COMPLACENCY!!!!!!

 

[SabCFC]

So United appointing Ragnick, aka the gegenpressing guru. 6 months interim and 2 years DoF consultancy.

A lot of hype on the social media about how United a serious football club now.

I call bullshit on this appointment. It's one that simply doesn't make sense given how Ragnick was rejected by the likes of Milan as their DoF at the moment they were rebuilding from scratch.

Seems to me a PR move from the Glazers to finally say, "see, we do know football and we have our own gegenpressing German!" - for Ragnick it's the ideal CV job. My experience in the professional world is that consultancy is really the dream bullshit job: get paid, give advice supposedly without much responsibility of the results.

What Ragnick did at Red Bull is simply not reproducible elsewhere and especially not at United. United are basically a US corporation with sports teams, their football team is a billion dollar operation where the football stuff is tightly related to financial and brand dealings. Big name signings and win-now is their MO (see Tampa Bay & Brady). Look no further than the Ronaldo signing in the summer right after buying a young player in the same position. 

You simply can't uproot that club the same way you can a blank page club or a random club in Russia. Speaking of, things going well in his Lokomotiv "consultancy" :

 

The week will be dominated by that hype, that United are serious. I think it's good for us. 

[asvaberg]

Yes, it's excellent news. It won't work :)

[Diddymen]

23 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

So United appointing Ragnick, aka the gegenpressing guru. 6 months interim and 2 years DoF consultancy.

A lot of hype on the social media about how United a serious football club now.

I call bullshit on this appointment. It's one that simply doesn't make sense given how Ragnick was rejected by the likes of Milan as their DoF at the moment they were rebuilding from scratch.

Seems to me a PR move from the Glazers to finally say, "see, we do know football and we have our own gegenpressing German!" - for Ragnick it's the ideal CV job. My experience in the professional world is that consultancy is really the dream bullshit job: get paid, give advice supposedly without much responsibility of the results.

What Ragnick did at Red Bull is simply not reproducible elsewhere and especially not at United. United are basically a US corporation with sports teams, their football team is a billion dollar operation where the football stuff is tightly related to financial and brand dealings. Big name signings and win-now is their MO (see Tampa Bay & Brady). Look no further than the Ronaldo signing in the summer right after buying a young player in the same position. 

You simply can't uproot that club the same way you can a blank page club or a random club in Russia. Speaking of, things going well in his Lokomotiv "consultancy" :

 

The week will be dominated by that hype, that United are serious. I think it's good for us. 

I agree.

Remember when the Ronaldo signing was made?! the gushing not just on Sky Sports, but on the BBC, was beyond a joke. Look who's laughing now :)

[Droy was my hero]

15 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

I call bullshit on this appointment. It's one that simply doesn't make sense given how Ragnick was rejected by the likes of Milan as their DoF at the moment they were rebuilding from scratch.

Certainly rather desperate.  63 and with only 1 year of actual coaching in the last 5, he really is Director of sport material now.  He won't like wearing a tracksuit in February in windy and rainy Manchester.
Rangnick + OGS might make sense.   Rangnick instead of Woodward now would make a lot of make sense.  Rangnick + Carrick might make sense.  Woodward and Rangnick in a track suit is crazy.

Sounds like a clever move by Woodward - if Rangnick flops then they can't make him DoF to replace Woodward in the summer.
It really has the feel of a defensive move by Woodward rather than thinking about how to manage the enormous depreciating asset that is the first team.

 

18 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

The week will be dominated by that hype, that United are serious. I think it's good for us. 

Man U are 12 points behind us, and 11 points ahead of Norwich.  They are years behind us, and it is replacing Woodward not OGS that may make a difference for them.
If I were Ronaldo I'd think about hanging up my boots.  If I were Sancho I'd be pushing for a move before anyone forgets me.  If I were van Beek.

 

 

19 minutes ago, asvaberg said:

Yes, it's excellent news. It won't work :)

Indeed, but I'm not sure what would work for them right now.
There is a lot of aging players there

What kind of club has Mata, Matic, Cavani still with them at their age?  None of them are contributing in the say that Silva does, but they have all had multi-year contracts.

And why would Ronaldo, De Gea, Pogba, Varane, Fernandes and Rashford want to be in a team like this?  They should be a proper clubs.

And worse Mason Greenwood and Sancho should be playing in clubs that are punching above their weight and on the up, not sad places like Man U.
 

 

 

 

[SabCFC]

Yes, it's definitely a panic move. They've been completely underprepared for the post-OGS - clearly they only sacked him because of the humiliation at Watford cause it seems none of this was planned during, say, the international break where multiple clubs had deals lined up for their new managers. It's just a bit strange that people say United have a vision now because they'll have a football man upstairs - making such a radical change in times of turmoil doesn't suggest long term. It suggests they offered the interim job to Rangnick and the consultancy job to convince him to accept the interim part.

United do have a strategy, it's a strategy built around their brand "The United Way" - it is vague yes, and its vagueness is exactly what led to their current situation, but it is crucial to the brand, it's why Ferguson and Glazers were/are friendly, the appeal of United is exactly that, it's how they bring in all that revenue money.

Woodward has already a replacement - Richard Arnold, a banker type, which isn't surprising. Glazers need competent business people at that position to keep in mind this is the end goal: a big brand (biggest,  greatest), a strong PR strategy (The United Way) and a strong football team (Theatre of Dreams like). Keep the markets happy. Woodward is a success for the Glazers, in fact so much he might be staying as ... consultant.

Rangnick made his claim as a tactician introducing new tactics to Germany (in reality, they're similar tactics used by ex-Soviet teams, with helpful substances, Red Bull certainly have their fair share of helpful substances in their sports system), then as DoF for Red Bull, they bought a lot of players from lower league Germany, France and the likes - and sold them for 40-50 millions. How's that what United need?

They do have a squad at its peak, ready to win now. Like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers getting Brady and renewing their SuperBowl winning roster (quite rare in the NFL). Win now. Does United need to develop players and sale them at high value? Absolutely not. 

That was his project at Red Bull, as well as Lokomotiv. He got our very own Anjorin for that plan.

So, are they waiting for Pochettino? Same Pochettino who's struggling with Leonardo, a DoF known/hated for his micro management. Rangnick has been describe as "dictator" by Russian football observers. Wants to do it all. Is it Arnold, Rangnick, Woodward and Pochettino? Or a young German coach? Your Nagelsmanns and Tuchels coaches with CL experiences are no longer available.

Pretty funny the narrative is that United got it right! It genuinely make no sense from a footballing perspective.

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

 

 They are years behind us, 

They finished above us only last season, so it's silly to say that 

Like us, they were being managed by someone not quite up to the job. They've got a good squad and they could improve as much as we have if they get the right coach.

1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sciatika]

I just watched the FA Cup final against them in 2018. I have to say, I am glad we have the team we have now over the one we had then. We may have had Hazard, but the team overall is much improved since then, IMO. Conversely, I bet Man United fans wish they had the team they had then over the one they have now.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Sciatika

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

They finished above us only last season, so it's silly to say that 

Who finished the season as the champions of Europe?

United are a mess. Their squad and club hierarchy are well behind ours and it will take years to catch up. Assuming they make the right moves to start doing that. Which we shouldn't assume they'll do.