My Blood Is Blue

West Ham 3 Chelsea 2

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Until we stop this fixation of passing the ball for the sake of it, we are never going to win the league, we need to move the ball quicker and be more direct.

Liverpool and city get the ball and straight away the front three are busting a gut to get forward, none of this look at me I can pass it sideways and backwards, apart from Ruddiger and   kovacic no one seems to want to run at them, RLC looks scared to do it in case he loses the ball,

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GURJ SS   
2 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

And it's just a coincidence we haven't been anywhere near a title challenge since we started to build a team around him?

Who the heck builds a team around a player who's main attribute is being neat and tidy on the ball 60 yards from the opponent's goal and a player who can barely run with a ball.  2 goals from open play well into his 4th season. Just as bad as his other partner in crime Kovacic, who has two league goals well into his 4th season.

Yes, that's 4 league goals between the two of them well into their 4th season by two players who are seen as crucial to us 

🤠🤠🤠 

 

 

We play 343 with the wingbacks providing width and the 2 alongside the striker playing more central, so we end up with 2 in the middle who play almost level but not quite. Jorginho never gets into goal scoring positions because if he did he wouldn't be adhering to the tactics set out by the manager. Kova has bad shooting but it's not like anyone is claiming he is great at it.

90% of the time we have possession, both Jorginho and Kovacic have 5 players ahead of them, it's the 5 in front who need to think about scoring and not them. I think the focus on our central mids is taking away the focus from how poor our attacking players are both on the ball and off the ball.

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Ham   
20 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Oh dear - Ham go watch the match.  And what am I, specialist fanboy because I rate the guy 3rd in ballon d'or and UEFA player of the year almost as highly as the guy who was 5th ?

Nice try. My comment wasn't about Jorginho the player. It was about your childish defence of his crucial errors. 

Against Man U you claimed Kova and Kante would have made the same mistake and today you falsely claim that there were a dozen passes to Mendy as bad as Jorginho's.  

You'd get more respect if you criticised him just once without any whataboutery. 

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10 minutes ago, Ham said:

Nice try. My comment wasn't about Jorginho the player. It was about your childish defence of his crucial errors. 

Stop being an idiot Ham.  We all saw what happened, some of us are rational enough to discuss the event, not your emotions.

10 minutes ago, Ham said:

Against Man U you claimed Kova and Kante would have made the same mistake 

Nice try.  No I said there was no reason to expect them to do better - I was defending TT's teactics of having Jorginho there, not the specific outcome where Jorginho made a big error.  Read the posts....

10 minutes ago, Ham said:

and today you falsely claim that there were a dozen passes to Mendy as bad as Jorginho's.  

... and watch the match.   And remember you are replying to posts by posters about an actual match, not straw posts by straw men about straw matches.

Edited by Droy was my hero

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SabCFC   

A very harsh defeat. We played well enough to earn a point, certainly better than against Watford. Conceding a deflected cross in the last minutes is as unlucky as it gets. Doesn't even give you the time to react to such misfortune.

It's funny, the overreaction to this day of results. The Juventus performance was 10 days ago, when we were deemed the best side in Europe by various pundits. We were very good, one of the best in Europe rather than the best, because we're in a league that has statistically the best 2 sides in Europe (with historically good numbers), in their 6th-7th year of top coaching, with investment, and with some luck with injuries. 

So in one week it's back to panic station.

The explanation is clear from Tuchel's post-game presser. If you're playing 2 guys through injury/pain, the physical status of your team is not good at all.

We are still the same team that played against Juventus, the difference is that since then, we've lost 2 players per game to injury. 

Juventus: Kanté, Chilwell

United: James, Jorginho, Werner

Watford: Chalobah

West Ham: Havertz, Alonso

Considering that we played late Sunday then Wednesday evening (3 days) then Saturday lunchtime (2 days), that's the most ridiculous schedule we'll play - rivalling Boxing Day. 

At some point, injuries and the collateral damage (changes, lack of rotation, fatigue) catches up even with the best teams. It's pretty obviously what happened to Liverpool last season, from top in Christmas to out of the top 4 a month later. They were still a very good team, they were too decimated to cope.

I imagine that Liverpool without their 3 first choice CMs would be crappy, maybe City would cope with that but they do have the deepest squad in the entire continent.

All of this to say, we're seeing unusual mistakes from very reliable players (Silva, Mendy, Jorginho - some punished, some not), and that's definitely down to fatigue, physical and mental. It reminds me of the end of last season with a similar turnaround between the FA Cup games, the CL games and the Top 4 dog fight and we conceded more goals than usual in similar fashion. We had a full week to prepare the C finalL, we had everyone back fit, and we produced one of our best performances ever in Porto - one week after that defeat to Villa that followed a crazy schedule of Arsenal, Leicester, Leicester, Villa in 10 days.

Players aren't machines. When Jorginho, Alonso play through injury and pain, it's hard not to have a drop off in form. When Lukaku plays 45 minutes and he's clearly not match fit. Rudiger has played every minute back from the international break. That's enough of fatigue to lose that 5 or 10% of physical levels to make you a little slower to press, a little slower to attack challenges, a little slower to track back. 

It was obvious in the 2nd half. I thought the 1st half was pretty good, solid and controlled overall. But in the 2nd half, we were slower in the counterpress, and that comes from everyone. For the 2nd goal, Ziyech looks knackered and doesn't track back, we drop deep and we open ourselves to danger. Just one example of lacking freshness.

For more tactical observations, seems that Tuchel learned from the Utd & Watford game to mitigate RLC's lack of defensive awareness and impact as a deep CM. Rarely does he start both of Ziyech & Mount, they're both auxiliary playmakers/CMs so one of them is usually enough and it allows to have a runner/inside forward type AM. This time, it allowed to pack the center, and they alternated as the 3rd CM, basically a 3-men midfield that allowed RLC to play higher, and much much better than the disastrous #6 performance against Watford and the ineffective performance in the double pivot against United.

It's not ideal  as you'd want one AM who attacks the box, but it's necessary until one of Kovacic/Kanté come back.

I hope Tuchel gives the squad 2 days off with the game being on Wednesday. Players badly need the rest. 2 new players injured per game is a worrying trend. And the Zenith result isn't that important when it's your squad's fitness status at play. I'd rest all of Mendy, Silva, Rudiger, Jorginho, Alonso, James - we simply have to get fit now. That's the priority. It's hard to improve performances when you're starting unfit players, the sacrifice has to be made now.

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Ham   
3 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Stop being an idiot Ham.  We all saw what happened, some of us are rational enough to discuss the event, not your emotions.

Nice try.  No I said there was no reason to expect them to do better - I was defending TT's teactics of having Jorginho there, not the specific outcome where Jorginho made a try.  Read the posts....

... and watch the match

Priceless. 

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30 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

The CL winners and the EC winners for a start.
I don't know where you have been for the last 11 months, but Jorginho has been excellent in the games you haven't been watching.

I ask about a title challenge and your reply is about winnings Cups🥴

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11 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

A very harsh defeat. We played well enough to earn a point, certainly better than against Watford. Conceding a deflected cross in the last minutes is as unlucky as it gets. Doesn't even give you the time to react to such misfortune.

It's funny, the overreaction to this day of results. The Juventus performance was 10 days ago, when we were deemed the best side in Europe by various pundits. We were very good, one of the best in Europe rather than the best, because we're in a league that has statistically the best 2 sides in Europe (with historically good numbers), in their 6th-7th year of top coaching, with investment, and with some luck with injuries. 

So in one week it's back to panic station.

The explanation is clear from Tuchel's post-game presser. If you're playing 2 guys through injury/pain, the physical status of your team is not good at all.

We are still the same team that played against Juventus, the difference is that since then, we've lost 2 players per game to injury. 

Juventus: Kanté, Chilwell

United: James, Jorginho, Werner

Watford: Chalobah

West Ham: Havertz, Alonso

Considering that we played late Sunday then Wednesday evening (3 days) then Saturday lunchtime (2 days), that's the most ridiculous schedule we'll play - rivalling Boxing Day. 

At some point, injuries and the collateral damage (changes, lack of rotation, fatigue) catches up even with the best teams. It's pretty obviously what happened to Liverpool last season, from top in Christmas to out of the top 4 a month later. They were still a very good team, they were too decimated to cope.

I imagine that Liverpool without their 3 first choice CMs would be crappy, maybe City would cope with that but they do have the deepest squad in the entire continent.

All of this to say, we're seeing unusual mistakes from very reliable players (Silva, Mendy, Jorginho - some punished, some not), and that's definitely down to fatigue, physical and mental. It reminds me of the end of last season with a similar turnaround between the FA Cup games, the CL games and the Top 4 dog fight and we conceded more goals than usual in similar fashion. We had a full week to prepare the C finalL, we had everyone back fit, and we produced one of our best performances ever in Porto - one week after that defeat to Villa that followed a crazy schedule of Arsenal, Leicester, Leicester, Villa in 10 days.

Players aren't machines. When Jorginho, Alonso play through injury and pain, it's hard not to have a drop off in form. When Lukaku plays 45 minutes and he's clearly not match fit. Rudiger has played every minute back from the international break. That's enough of fatigue to lose that 5 or 10% of physical levels to make you a little slower to press, a little slower to attack challenges, a little slower to track back. 

It was obvious in the 2nd half. I thought the 1st half was pretty good, solid and controlled overall. But in the 2nd half, we were slower in the counterpress, and that comes from everyone. For the 2nd goal, Ziyech looks knackered and doesn't track back, we drop deep and we open ourselves to danger. Just one example of lacking freshness.

For more tactical observations, seems that Tuchel learned from the Utd & Watford game to mitigate RLC's lack of defensive awareness and impact as a deep CM. Rarely does he start both of Ziyech & Mount, they're both auxiliary playmakers/CMs so one of them is usually enough and it allows to have a runner/inside forward type AM. This time, it allowed to pack the center, and they alternated as the 3rd CM, basically a 3-men midfield that allowed RLC to play higher, and much much better than the disastrous #6 performance against Watford and the ineffective performance in the double pivot against United.

It's not ideal  as you'd want one AM who attacks the box, but it's necessary until one of Kovacic/Kanté come back.

I hope Tuchel gives the squad 2 days off with the game being on Wednesday. Players badly need the rest. 2 new players injured per game is a worrying trend. And the Zenith result isn't that important when it's your squad's fitness status at play. I'd rest all of Mendy, Silva, Rudiger, Jorginho, Alonso, James - we simply have to get fit now. That's the priority. It's hard to improve performances when you're starting unfit players, the sacrifice has to be made now.

Great post and all very valid points well made.

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Man for man are we not a better team then them?

up until today I thought we was

433

Mendy v Alison very close

James vTAA  very close

Chilwell v Robertson ( chelsea just)

Rudi v VVD very close

Silva v any other CH (Chelsea)

Kova/Jorginho v Henderson ( Chelsea)

Mount v Thiago (Chelsea just)

Kante v Fabinho (chelsea)

Whoever v Salah (liverpool)

Lukaku/Havetz v Jota ( Liverpool just )

Cho/Pulisic v Mane (very close)

if we base it on a squad Chelsea are much better

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Cheatedagain said:

Man for man are we not a better team then them?

up until today I thought we was

433

Mendy v Alison very close

James vTAA  very close

Chilwell v Robertson ( chelsea just)

Rudi v VVD very close

Silva v any other CH (Chelsea)

Kova/Jorginho v Henderson ( Chelsea)

Mount v Thiago (Chelsea just)

Kante v Fabinho (chelsea)

Whoever v Salah (liverpool)

Lukaku/Havetz v Jota ( Liverpool just )

Cho/Pulisic v Mane (very close)

if we base it on a squad Chelsea are much better

 

 

Cho/Pulisic v Mane ? 

Maybe both of them added together , otherwise Mane all day long even if he is a cheat.

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