My Blood Is Blue

West Ham 3 Chelsea 2

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SabCFC   
14 minutes ago, Blue Rod said:

I've been saying for weeks that we don't look like a title winning side,  much to the annoyance of our ultras. Time to review our blasphemy law perhaps.. 

If City and Liverpool look like title winning sides, one of them will still lose. Just like City & PSG/Bayern looked more title-winning like than us in the Champions League. It doesn't mean much. It's perception. We've had injuries and bad form yet still only 2pts off the imperious City and 1pt off the breathtaking Liverpool.

City didn't look like a title winning side last season until halfway through the season. Liverpool looked like the nailed on title winners until the Boxing Day. You can crumble in the holiday fixtures or go on a run in January, or in March when CL is back and things change again. The most important thing is to stay in touch at this moment in time with our squad situation.

Edited by SabCFC

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27 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Read the posts - you asked about teams and I gave you 2 teams.  What is it today that stops people reading even what they wrote themselves?

Again, two teams that have won Cups. Greece won the Euro's and we won the CL when we finished 6th in the league, which proves anything can happen in Cups. Italy win the Euros's but the quality of their league is dire. Blimey, Denmark even won one after failing to qualify from their Euro qualification group.  League is a different ball game altogether and the hard fact is we have been not been anywhere near since Jorginho was made our main man.  

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SabCFC   
2 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Again, two teams that have won Cups. Greece won the Euro's and we won the CL when we finished 6th in the league, which proves anything can happen in Cups. Italy win the Euros's but the quality of their league is dire. Blimey, Denmark even won one after failing to qualify from their Euro qualification group.  League is a different ball game altogether and the hard fact is we have been not been anywhere near since Jorginho was made our main man.  

So Jorginho is good enough to beat all of Atletico Madrid, Porto, Real Madrid, City (who play in the same league) but not good enough for the league? A league which contain 70 to 80% worse teams than the ones you have to beat from February to May in the Champions League.

Jorginho is the least of our issues, we have to keep him fit and rested with how much we depend on him - given how little control or possession we have without him (Villa, Brentford, Watford).

Winning the CL requires at the very least, world class GK, defenders and midfielders. We have those and we won it thanks to those.

The issue is more that Kovacic has one month injuries here and there and Kanté can't stay fit nowadays for 2 games in a row. Let's worry about that, instead of the CM that Tuchel needs so much he starts him even though he's carrying an injury.

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Blue Rod   
13 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

If City and Liverpool look like title winning sides, one of them will still lose. Just like City & PSG/Bayern looked more title-winning like than us in the Champions League. It doesn't mean much. It's perception. We've had injuries and bad form yet still only 2pts off the imperious City and 1pt off the breathtaking Liverpool.

City didn't look like a title winning side last season until halfway through the season. Liverpool looked like the nailed on title winners until the Boxing Day. You can crumble in the holiday fixtures or go on a run in January, or in March when CL is back and things change again. The most important thing is to stay in touch at this moment in time with our squad situation.

Mathematically of course, we are in a title winning position, which makes my observation even more frustrating to me in person. But I made my point even when we were leading the table by 3 pts. We just do not ooze the confidence of any of the sides that have won the league in my recent memory. That we might start doing so in a couple of months is something I can only pray for. 

Solid defence is the rock on which a title challenge is based. But you can't win a title with your defence having to do everything - defending, controlling the game, creating, scoring, etc. It's like a passenger flight where the pilots are serving meals and demonstrating the emergency procedures. 

Our midfield + forward play has not been good enough, for several months now. We have been held together by the defence. Today was a day when our midfield and forwards were called upon to pay back and save the blushes of the defence. They couldn't do it. That is our imbalance, in a nutshell. 

 

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54 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

There is a difference between finishing on less than 70 points, and competing with the best sides this league has known for the past 5-10 years. Competing is a massive improvement, you can't control how good your rivals are. If they have a +90 points season, it's hard to be disappointed if we hit 85 points for example. It means a +15-20 points improvement compared to every season since 2017. That's the massive gap we've found ourselves in for the last couple of years and we're catching up, of that there is no doubt. In the Tuchel regime, we're catching up at a faster pace than any other team, both domestically and in Europe. 

 

This.  We are a top team, and whoever wins the PL this season will be an excellent team.  Our hat is in the ring.

28 minutes ago, Rob B said:

In my opinion, we absolutely do look like a title winning side. The trouble is, so do Man City and Liverpool.  

And this.  The manager's job when given a good enough squad is to accumulate a load of points so that we are in with a chance at the  end of the season.  We are doing that.

46 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

Although not on our best, we controlled this game much better than Watford in the 1st half. Their xG was inflated by the penalty in that first half.

Agree on the penalty impact to xg.  Nevertheless they are the first team to score twice against us (they scored 3) and the first team to have >2xG against us.  And it wasn't fluky finishing by them (though it might have been poor defence by us).

46 minutes ago, SabCFC said:

Although not on our best, we controlled this game much better than Watford in the 1st half. Their xG was inflated by the penalty in that first half. We didn't create much, for sure, though we always look threatening enough. West Ham are a good side, for certain, and they've caused problems to all the top teams. I think our 2nd half was bad as if we didn't know how to control a lead which is unusual. I felt the drop off physically in the 2nd half was obvious. Heck, James was losing the usual shoulder-to-shoulder battles he wins easily. They bullied us in the 2nd half.

Sure first half good to okay, though not as good as we were not long ago, 2nd half awful.
But I still think a lot of credit goes to Moyes for their game plan.  Bullying us (see the last 2 games) is a deliberate tactic that works, not just the result of growing injuries.

The other issue is that we looked wonderful a few games ago against some very weak and unmotivated teams (Newcastle, Norwich).  There are some teams, Watford and WHU, whose main strength is their aggressive attitude.  So some of the downturn is due to opponents not just us.

11 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Again, two teams that have won Cups

.....  Again read the posts.  if you want to change the question then start again.

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Last time we conceded 3 in a game was WBA.    Rather similar as we chased the game to get 3 points and got punished.
After that we conceded 7 in 15 games (which included  3 games against City,  Leicester twice, RM twice, Arsenal and Porto).
And this season we have conceded 10 in 22 before today.

Fingers crossed we get another reaction.

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45 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

.....  Again read the posts.  if you want to change the question then start again.

And you know full well that was a rhetorical question and you continue to swerve the point I have made about us not challenging since Jorgi's arrival.

 

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Soed90   
39 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Last time we conceded 3 in a game was WBA.    Rather similar as we chased the game to get 3 points and got punished.
After that we conceded 7 in 15 games (which included  3 games against City,  Leicester twice, RM twice, Arsenal and Porto).
And this season we have conceded 10 in 22 before today.

Fingers crossed we get another reaction.

Don't mean to be pessimistic but we are having a much harder time with injuries now though. It all aligned in the run in last season with more or less no injuries but right now we are having a torrid time. From Tuchels post match comments it even sounds like Jorginho shouldn't be playing right now as he's struggling with pain but we don't really have a choice with Kante & Kovacic out already and Saul Niguez unable to prove he can handle it here.

Chilwell out for a long period of time is a killer blow to us too in my view. Alonso is not at his level either defensively or offensively so that will make us weaker too.

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8 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

And you know full well that was a rhetorical question and you continue to swerve the point I have made about us not challenging since Jorgi's arrival.

Oh - so that is something completely different - why didn't you just say so?  You should have put the question mark after the question you wanted answering, not the one I answered. 

I guess you don't remember how poor we were in 17/18 and how far we have come since.  A complete rebuild, Azpi, Rudiger, Alonso and Kante remain from that time.  Jorginho has been key to the resurgence of Chelsea.

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15 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

I guess you don't remember how poor we were in 17/18 and how far we have come since.  A complete rebuild, Azpi, Rudiger, Alonso and Kante remain from that time.  Jorginho has been key to the resurgence of Chelsea.

We've had a couple of poor seasons over the last 15 years, but we've never been more than a couple of years from winning or seriously competing for the title...up until Jorginho arrived. 

Btw. Lukaku being absolutely slaughtered on big football forum. Much better without him is the majority opinion.

Edited by boratsbrother

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