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ROTG   
12 hours ago, Ham said:

How do you work that out? 

You can only blame the playing staff and injuries for so long, thereafter you have to start question the coaches selections and tactics 

Saturdays team was defeated before it walked on the pitch, and the tactics employed by TT were appalling.

the people who I felt most sorry for were the Chelsea supporter who travelled to the match and watch a coach and team serve up that garbage.

 

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6 minutes ago, Freeboot-Rightz said:

You can only blame the playing staff and injuries for so long, thereafter you have to start question the coaches selections and tactics 

Saturdays team was defeated before it walked on the pitch, and the tactics employed by TT were appalling.

the people who I felt most sorry for were the Chelsea supporter who travelled to the match and watch a coach and team serve up that garbage.

 

Why can you only blame the injuries for so long? Surely you can blame them for as long as we have an issue with them?

Take TAA and Robertson out of that Liverpool team for a few months whilst asking them to constantly have to rotate the CBs week on week because of injuries and covid and then force their midfield 3 to play with injuries and not fully fit for about 2 months… how do you think they’d get on? And would that be Klopps fault?

If you can’t see how well this team has done to get through this injury/covid crisis whilst remaining in all cup competitions and within the top 3, then I’m not sure you’ll ever understand why some of us are fully backing Tuchel. 

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asvaberg   

Match result: dissapointed but not surprised

We just have to move on.

Edited by asvaberg
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Ham   
56 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Why can you only blame the injuries for so long? Surely you can blame them for as long as we have an issue with them?

Take TAA and Robertson out of that Liverpool team for a few months whilst asking them to constantly have to rotate the CBs week on week because of injuries and covid and then force their midfield 3 to play with injuries and not fully fit for about 2 months… how do you think they’d get on? And would that be Klopps fault?

If you can’t see how well this team has done to get through this injury/covid crisis whilst remaining in all cup competitions and within the top 3, then I’m not sure you’ll ever understand why some of us are fully backing Tuchel. 

100%.  Plus we have no real idea of why Mount or Havertz didn't start. My guess is that neither was fully fit. TT had been criticised for his selections. The fitness fallout from Covid is likely to continue throughout most of the season but neither the press nor the fan critics will want to factor that in. 

I'm genuinely hopeful for the future of this group once TT has had a couple of windows to clear out some deadwood. 

 

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35 minutes ago, asvaberg said:

Match result: dissapointed but not surprised

We just have to move on.

I can't help but worry if we progress in the CL and play them at some point. Last season under Tuchel we had their number, 3/3. It's really frustrating that both games this season have been total write offs. Almost felt like we didn't even try. 12 point swing difference and we are 13 points behind...

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1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Why can you only blame the injuries for so long? Surely you can blame them for as long as we have an issue with them?

Take TAA and Robertson out of that Liverpool team for a few months whilst asking them to constantly have to rotate the CBs week on week because of injuries and covid and then force their midfield 3 to play with injuries and not fully fit for about 2 months… how do you think they’d get on? And would that be Klopps fault?

If you can’t see how well this team has done to get through this injury/covid crisis whilst remaining in all cup competitions and within the top 3, then I’m not sure you’ll ever understand why some of us are fully backing Tuchel. 

Criticism and fully backing are not mutually exclusive. I think TT has got a lot right, but also quite a bit wrong.

Certainly injuries and Covid have played a part, but so has the fundamental failure of our forwards and the lack of creativity of our attacking midfield. We are capable of excellent performances, but even before the current crisis we regularly looked unable to beat some pretty mediocre opposition.

In my opinion that is mainly down to some fundamental imbalances in the team and some poor to medium players in key positions.

Some of these failings are covered up by the excellence we have in other positions and by good coaching and discipline on the part of TT, but we are still some way from being the finished article.

I am more optimistic for next season than for this.

Edited by RDC Williams

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2 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Why can you only blame the injuries for so long? Surely you can blame them for as long as we have an issue with them?

 

Well, it's a double edged sword. 

Why do we have Gilmour/gallagher on loan, fully well knowing that at different points of the season, we will have different players out due to covid. Hell, for 2 CM positions, we don't even have 4 decent options. The level of drop after kante, jorgi, kova to saul, Rlc is so massive that it's embarassing, yet we have those 2 on loan. 

Why do we have only 9 defenders for 5 positions? Actually we are lucky to even have 9 defenders as sarr deal broke off at the last moment. We would have had just 8 players. Which includes an average at best Alonso, a "should not be playing more than 1 game a week" 36/37 year old Silva, a 33 year old azpi and a 22 year old chalobah who could have been a bust. 

Is not it the manager's fault that we are probably atleast one versatile WB who can play both wings and a CM short. 

I am still a long way off in "TT out" or even starting to slate him. But if he gets most of the credit for the CL win and our good play last year, then he needs to get atleast some of the blame for our poor form too. 

Let me put out a stat. In the last 10 PL games, we have just 14 points and are ranked 8th. That's more than 25% of the whole PL season, where we have been worse than par. In the same timeframe, United have been ****, have sacked a manager and still have 1 more point than us. 

The trends are worrying. If we don't start winning games and atleast get top4, there are no excuses that will save TT, be those injuries, covid, earthquakes or volcanic eruptions

 

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Just now, didierforever said:

Well, it's a double edged sword. 

Why do we have Gilmour/gallagher on loan, fully well knowing that at different points of the season, we will have different players out due to covid. Hell, for 2 CM positions, we don't even have 4 decent options. The level of drop after kante, jorgi, kova to saul, Rlc is so massive that it's embarassing, yet we have those 2 on loan. 

Why do we have only 9 defenders for 5 positions? Actually we are lucky to even have 9 defenders as sarr deal broke off at the last moment. We would have had just 8 players. Which includes an average at best Alonso, a "should not be playing more than 1 game a week" 36/37 year old Silva, a 33 year old azpi and a 22 year old chalobah who could have been a bust. 

Is not it the manager's fault that we are probably atleast one versatile WB who can play both wings and a CM short. 

I am still a long way off in "TT out" or even starting to slate him. But if he gets most of the credit for the CL win and our good play last year, then he needs to get atleast some of the blame for our poor form too. 

Let me put out a stat. In the last 10 PL games, we have just 14 points and are ranked 8th. That's more than 25% of the whole PL season, where we have been worse than par. In the same timeframe, United have been ****, have sacked a manager and still have 1 more point than us. 

The trends are worrying. If we don't start winning games and atleast get top4, there are no excuses that will save TT, be those injuries, covid, earthquakes or volcanic eruptions

 

I think squad depth and numbers is really the remit of the board , they've been the same with previous coaches , look at what's happening now , or rather look at what's not happening now , instead of buying a decent left back who us young enough to put pressure on Chilwell , they've tried to get Emerson who was bang average during his time here , have got the underwhelming Kenedy back just in case and are now looking at the fourth choice PSG left back . Every coach we ever had is rewarded for all their good work with rubbish and expected to work miracles. We cannot recall Gallagher or Gilmour anyway , maybe we can argue that we should have kept them in the first place but at what costs to their development . 

Maybe , we should never have bought Barkley if he's not good enough ? I think Conte got the blame for that one when it has the clubs fingerprints of trying to make money all over it. 

Secondly none of us are party to the condition of many of the players , Jorginho has been playing injured , Kante has been injured on and off all year , Mount looks injured , Havertz has had Covid twice and injuries , maybe Ziyech has a face like a smacked arse as he's having to play carrying injuries he'd normally be rested for ?

The Premier League is hell bent on us playing regardless of the state of the squad as they are punishing us for going to the World Club championship when they moved heaven and earth to make things easier for United when they qualified for it. 

When everyone was fit and injury free we were flying , even if the goals scoring stats were skewed towards defence . 

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2 hours ago, Ham said:

100%.  Plus we have no real idea of why Mount or Havertz didn't start. My guess is that neither was fully fit. TT had been criticised for his selections. The fitness fallout from Covid is likely to continue throughout most of the season but neither the press nor the fan critics will want to factor that in. 

I'm genuinely hopeful for the future of this group once TT has had a couple of windows to clear out some deadwood. 

 

Mount certainly looked sub-par against Spurs. I felt then something wasn't quite right with him.

As you say, the press and armchair critics have no idea of the actual fitness of players, so, in the case of Saturday's game, Pulisic and Ziyech picked ahead of Mount and Werner, for example, is seen as a sign of madness on Tuchel's part rather than possibly him starting with two players in a higher state of fitness than the other options.

If Kepa hadn't taken that little step to the right just before de Bruyne shot, and Lukaku had gone around Ederson instead of trying to shoot over him, we might have been celebrating a 1-0 victory rather than a 0-1 loss.

We weren't brilliant, but the game could have gone either way. If we had won 1-0 people would be saying that it was the sign of champions to win when not playing well. Apparently losing 0-1 when not playing well is a catastrophe!

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paulw66   
22 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:


We weren't brilliant, but the game could have gone either way. If we had won 1-0 people would be saying that it was the sign of champions to win when not playing well. Apparently losing 0-1 when not playing well is a catastrophe!

Basically this. 

The frustration comes from the other games we have dropped points in. 

To limit City to two decent shots (one of which we presented them) was very good. In those tight games, you have to take the chances that come your way, and we didn't 

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