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9 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

Chilwell and James were crucial to our style of play. It’s not a coincidence that our form has collapsed since they got injured. I don’t think there’s anything that Tuchel can do other than flog Alonso and Azpi to death. We can’t sign anyone any good, because they know they’ll be second fiddle once Chilwell and James eventually return. Alonso and Azpi are the back ups. Now we need back ups to the back ups. He’s been given Kenedy. That’s it.

In midfield Jorginho and Mount look like they should be having two months rest. Not playing football. Kante and Kovacic have been injured most of the season. Ziyech, Pulisic and CHO should be really fighting for one spot, definitely not all on the pitch at once. While Werner and Havertz have been dumped in favour of Lukaku, who looks like he really does regret being here. 

All in all, it’s a right old mess. 

Sums it up perfectly for me.

I think Tuchel is probably also suffering from mental fatigue too. He may be over thinking things because he doesn't have the players available or the time to plan correctly.

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Out of interest, has anyone figured out how to describe the new formation we have had for a few weeks?

And I don't mean Mount doing a Barkley - In front of the ball when they have it, behind it when we have it - that seems to be tiredness.

Alonso seems to be still playing classic WB, getting forward as much as ever, trotting back to defend from time to time according mostly to the scoreline.  Azpi seems to be playing like a conventional FB.  Choosing his moments carefully going forward, frequently tucking in close with his CBs, leaving the oppo WB to our RW (which is conventionally the RW job).

Its a bit like several things, it is wholly like nothing I recall.  In part this is the back 4 with Ivanovic and Ashley Cole.  One attacking FB one defensive (usually the oppo would place a forward on Ash, thus making Ivanovic the attacking FB - which he was very very good at).
In part it is City/Liverpool where they play a back 2 AND 2 WBs  (though they usually have a big CM that drops in amongst the CBs at times whereas we usually have Azpi or Chalobah pushing up into midfield when not overworked).

But while I am struggling to name our system, it is clear the players know what they are doing.  We look as organised as ever (if not as energetic).  They are playing the boss's system.  (And it works with 4 defenders instead of 5).

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Ziyech is absolutely dreadful, along with Lukaku and Werner. All of them have a poor first touch and are totally void of any ideas upfront. Whenever they get the ball they either fall over and lose possession or just straight lose possession. It’s getting incredibly frustrating to watch them steal a living in that team.

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39 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

When confidence goes it always looks like players aren't trying.

I didn't see a lack of effort, just a lot of players playing below their best. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. I didn't see a lack of effort. I also didn't see evidence of excessive fatigue (with the exception of Mount) - we have played a lot of games, but we have a lot of players (perhaps someone could do an analysis of how many games each player has played in comparison with City an Liverpool players).

What I did see was a crisis of confidence, a lack of direction (and paradoxically a lack of flexibility) and the same old failures in the final 3rd. I also saw a failure on TT's part to react to what was happening on the pitch.

There is no easy answer to this. We look worse than we actually are at the moment. It isn't going to get any easier and I think 3rd is going to be a struggle now.

We definitely need a striker, an attacking midfielder and a full back, but we aren't getting one in this window.

All quite depressing really.

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13 minutes ago, ugogbuzue said:

Ziyech is absolutely dreadful, along with Lukaku and Werner. All of them have a poor first touch and are totally void of any ideas upfront. Whenever they get the ball they either fall over and lose possession or just straight lose possession. It’s getting incredibly frustrating to watch them steal a living in that team.

Ziyech has a poor first touch?  Are you talking about OUR Ziyech?

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I really like Tuchel. He seems a genuine person, serious work ethic, handles media brilliantly...oh and won CL! But then so did Roberto Di Mateo

I fear for him. That performance stunk out the joint and it followed on from some other very poor performances that have taken us from top of the league title contenders to long shots for top 4 in a pretty short period. And I say long shots because the consensus seems to be that injuries and fatigue are the main cuprits. Well here's a newsflash. We are still in January. We've got nearly 4 months of football to play and it's going to be busier than ever. We got FA Cup, CL, League Cup Final and a lot more Prem games all over this period ...and Chilwell  and James ain't coming back anytime soon. If we are honestly physically knackered  now then I'm afraid we are fckd. I'm hoping that's not the case because Tuchel needs to fix this. I've no idea how. He's the one earning millions a year at one of the world's biggest clubs. Lampard didn't have the goodwill of a CL behind him , but he had blue blood in his veins. When he got that prolonged bad spell ( and without a 100mill striker) he was gone. 

I'm hoping Tuchel has got a very dark bastard side to him because my feeling is that these players can do a lot better than they are doing and need to be told that in no uncertain terms. 

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Just back and I can say that there were a fair fees fans who’ve turned and jeered him off when he was substituted. He was as poor tonight as he was on Saturday. 
 

TT didn’t help himself by not starting Kovacic and starting Jorginho. You need runners and play who can get away from their press, sadly not Jorginho. 
 

We’ve lost fluidity and pace, pace, width and attacking threat came from the two injured wing-backs. Fluidity lost when playing Lukaku who from what I’ve witnessed cannot link play. He makes lots of runs to get in behind when the central defenders or midfielders get the ball in our half. However we don’t play that ball at all now and most sides don’t leave enough space in behind for that ball to get played into. 
 

Very neat, clever well coached side are Brighton. 

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7 minutes ago, East Lower said:

TT didn’t help himself by not starting Kovacic and starting Jorginho. You need runners and play who can get away from their press, sadly not Jorginho. 

The conviction that Jorginho cannot play against the press and Kovacic can has to be one of the strangest on here.  I await the next big player award going Kovacic's way.

9 minutes ago, East Lower said:

Fluidity lost when playing Lukaku who from what I’ve witnessed cannot link play. He makes lots of runs to get in behind when the central defenders or midfielders get the ball in our half. However we don’t play that ball at all now and most sides don’t leave enough space in behind for that ball to get played into. 

There is certainly something up with the way Lukaku combines with the team.  For me a big part of the issue is that he is expected to be a target man, yet the AMs (we had 3 today with Mount) don't get at all close to him - you can't link with players who don't get close.  Either they are tired or just don't expect anything to stick with him.  Instead Lukaku does want to be bursting through the offside line when CHO, Ziyech, Mount and Pulisic all wanting to be running ahead of their CF.    It is strange how TT, who has the defence playing very clearly according to instructions, hasn't banged the front lines's heads together.

15 minutes ago, East Lower said:

Very neat, clever well coached side are Brighton. 

Yes - and very rested for this game as others have pointed out - up for it.

 

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5 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

The conviction that Jorginho cannot play against the press and Kovacic can has to be one of the strangest on here.  I await the next big player award going Kovacic's way.

There is certainly something up with the way Lukaku combines with the team.  For me a big part of the issue is that he is expected to be a target man, yet the AMs (we had 3 today with Mount) don't get at all close to him - you can't link with players who don't get close.  Either they are tired or just don't expect anything to stick with him.  Instead Lukaku does want to be bursting through the offside line when CHO, Ziyech, Mount and Pulisic all wanting to be running ahead of their CF.    It is strange how TT, who has the defence playing very clearly according to instructions, hasn't banged the front lines's heads together.

 

 

On Jorginho, I’m a fan but can also see his limitations - Spurs on Sunday is his game, not against this very mobile and quick passing Brighton side. Very similar to the reason why TT didn’t pick him against Man City away. 
 

Kante did a lot of his running tonight and that effected Kante’s influence going forward - the last 10 minutes aside when we pressed on.

On Mount, a poor season thus far - he’s set his own standards and hasn’t lived up to them generally this season.

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Ro61   
38 minutes ago, East Lower said:

Just back and I can say that there were a fair fees fans who’ve turned and jeered him off when he was substituted. He was as poor tonight as he was on Saturday. 
 

TT didn’t help himself by not starting Kovacic and starting Jorginho. You need runners and play who can get away from their press, sadly not Jorginho. 
 

We’ve lost fluidity and pace, pace, width and attacking threat came from the two injured wing-backs. Fluidity lost when playing Lukaku who from what I’ve witnessed cannot link play. He makes lots of runs to get in behind when the central defenders or midfielders get the ball in our half. However we don’t play that ball at all now and most sides don’t leave enough space in behind for that ball to get played into. 
 

Very neat, clever well coached side are Brighton. 

A very interesting perspective from someone at the game.I must confess I don't understand why we don't have a member of the coaching staff with a view from above,or do we?(it happens in american sports)

You will have a view of the entire pitch,and can see things that the manager can't see from a standing position.He could then relay information to the manager that he may have missed.

I used to watch players off the ball as much as on the ball  in my seat in the west upper,and really you don't see half the things on tv.

As for tonights game I haven't watched it,so can't comment,but I'll watch it now.

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