Chelsea Reserve & Youth Team

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Juni said:

Decent absolutely wins you PL and CL titles when those players are getting Zappacosta's minutes and Barkley's minutes and Emerson's minutes and free up big money to go and buy Havertz or Werner or pay Thiago Silva or whatever.

I doubt Guehi or Tomori would be happy with the minutes Zappacosta or Emerson got 

[Juni]

I doubt they'd be quite so bad as to warrant that little playing time.

[Juni]

22 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Reports are he won't sign a new contract. Ergo, get as much coin as you can 

Reports are one thing. Convice him there's a real pathway and he'll sign a new contract. There isn't, so he can't be convinced. A problem entirely of Chelsea's own making.

[Ham]

1 hour ago, Juni said:

Reports are one thing. Convice him there's a real pathway and he'll sign a new contract. There isn't, so he can't be convinced. A problem entirely of Chelsea's own making.

With Silva's age and uncertainly historically over the reliability of AC and Zouma, you'd have thought a year on loan lurking might have been an option. 

 

[Droy was my hero]

1 hour ago, Juni said:

I don't see signing him back for £40m (which is pie in the sky ****, he won't come back) as cheaper either.

No I disagree.  Buying a 26 yo CB that is ready to start in the first team is always cheaper than buying an unproven 23 yo 2nd choice LB or a 21 yo CB who is not Varane or Terry.  in the sense of being better value for money.

But I agree, a buy back clause is only valid if Guehi can be persuaded to sign for Chelsea.  In practice I presume it means Chelsea would be informed of any other clubs bid and invited to match the fee and perhaps improve on the wages.  Seems unlikely.

1 hour ago, Juni said:

Reports are one thing. Convince him there's a real pathway and he'll sign a new contract. There isn't, so he can't be convinced. A problem entirely of Chelsea's own making.

The club have been brilliant to Guehi - fantastic loan to Swansea and I'm sure he has been earning well above the average Swansea wage. 

Proof of pathway?  Club can't do more than play Mount Tammy James and Tomori at the same time.  The issue is not the Academy here.  The issue is just how strong the first team squad is now.  I'd say it is better than 16/17, close to 14/15 and not far off 2009/10.  There was no rival like City (or recent versions of Liverpool) then either.

 

I think we have to accept that ideas of loyalty post RA and post FA's Academy are different.
Time was when local kids went to their local club and had an affinity long before they ever reached u16 level.
The modern club post Arnesen is out to get the best young players over a much larger catchment area - S England, if not the whole world.  Many of those 8 & 9 year olds that fans think of as long term Chelsea projects came to Chelsea not out of post code lottery or because they used to stand in the shed, but because they or their parents reckoned that coaching at Cobham was the best way to success.

My guess would be that many of them have had to make a choice between staying at Chelsea or moving to another club pretty much every summer since they were 12.

Juni may well be able to confirm that.  (I should say that I know almost nothing of Guehi's circumstances, and am talking generally here).

[paulw66]

13 hours ago, Juni said:

Reports are one thing. Convice him there's a real pathway and he'll sign a new contract. There isn't, so he can't be convinced. A problem entirely of Chelsea's own making.

You know that?

Bearing in mind the age of Silva and Azpilicueta, plus the lack of faith in Zouma, there is a fairly clear path there, if he is good enough. 

Maybe he thinks he can walk into Palace's first team and be regularly from day 1. That won't ever happen here due to the standard, not due to the lack of pathway 

[thevelourfog]

15 hours ago, Juni said:

Decent absolutely wins you PL and CL titles when those players are getting Zappacosta's minutes and Barkley's minutes and Emerson's minutes and free up big money to go and buy Havertz or Werner or pay Thiago Silva or whatever.

Barkley got 40 PL minutes in 2 sub appearances last season. Zappacosta got 0 minutes PL in 0 appearances. Neither featured in the CL. Emerson managed 88 PL minutes in 2 sub appearances, although granted featured more in cups.

I'm confused. Do we need to offer all youth players a "pathway" first team football, or do we need to destroy* their careers by giving them Barkley/Zappacosta/Emerson minutes? Are these the sort of minutes that mean Tomori and Guehi, and potentially Livramento and Bate, sign new contracts?

* A tad melodramatic, in many ways I'm sure those players are happy with their lot. I'm not sure talented young players should be happy with the equivalent, mind.

Edited July 16, 2021 by thevelourfog

[Droy was my hero]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

I'm confused. Do we need to offer all youth players a "pathway" first team football, or do we need to destroy* their careers by giving them Barkley/Zappacosta/Emerson minutes? Are these the sort of minutes that mean Tomori and Guehi, and potentially Livramento and Bate, sign new contracts?

Neatly put.

I'd go back to loyalty.  Chelsea is not the club that allowed these kids to follow their dreams, 1960s style.  Rather Cobham is the training facility that won the beauty contest when their parents were choosing amongst the dozen clubs at which they could have continued their career with at age 10, 11, 12, 13, .....

[thevelourfog]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Maybe he thinks he can walk into Palace's first team and be regularly from day 1. That won't ever happen here due to the standard, not due to the lack of pathway 

It's clearly this. I think they've had to delay a few friendlies because of lack of playing staff? 

2/1 to be relegated (4th favourite), 10/1 their manager is the first sacked this season (joint 4th favourite). It's a huge drop from Chelsea standard, and a marginal increase on Swansea standard with a significant risk of that fine margin disappearing within 10 months. 

He's not after a "pathway". He's after first-team PL football. No criticism from me, fair play to him. This is not about the club failing him.

[Juni]

If you're not offering pathways to players you have developed in-house and who are clearly good enough, you are wasting your time and your money. Go ahead, sink another year into a declining Thiago Silva, spend £30m on a CB nobody will remember in two years, and pretend it's a sustainable theme while forgetting exactly why Chelsea are currently Champions of Europe.