nateevs

For the reason that most of the PL teams will line up defensively against us, Schurrle is the wrong fit. This why he comes in, does not perform and gets taken off most times he is included. Schurrle's best games for us have only been when we play against teams that attack us. Then he has the space behind the opposition back line to be effective. Schurrle does not have ability to play through tight spaces and this is why he becomes anonymous in most games. Unfortunately, we need players who fit in for most games. This is why Schurrle will leave.

Despite all my previous posts supporting him, I still will not want us buying Messi at £200m. It will not make any sense to do so. I will look for a second deep-lying, strong but very technically astute midfielder to partner Matic and shore up the midfield. Strootman is my choice. One more midfielder who can play in advanced positions in midfield. A massive upgrade on Oscar - someone in the mould of Koke. Two wingers. Ones that can match the work rate of Willian but upgrade his attacking output. I think we missed the chance to buy Alexis Sanchez. Lucas Ocampos is one player I will look at. I will move on Schurrle, Salah and one more player to accomodate the new players and I still hope to save on £200m. All that said, if by some miracle, Messi is available for about £65m, I will spend it and worry later.

He wants a "different prespective" of saying this. Not the same old boring comments of Messi is the stand out player of his generation. Apparently, he cannot learn anything new from it. But how else can one explain that Messi is the best in the world?

I responded to your claims of Messi being past it by reminding you that he scored 41 goals last season and has already scored 23 in all competitions so far this season. I responded to your claims of Messi being unable to track back with a video (although just one but nonetheless an indication) showing an instance where he does this. I backed this up by reminding you he played in a team set up to play like this for years. I also used the video to point out that your claim about Messi being unable to play against stiff defences is rubbish. I attempted to show that if he does this against the best back line in the PL, how much less the others? On your silly claim of Messi needing space to be effective, I argued from a technical point of view. I cited that Messi is the best player in the world when playing through impossible spaces. His close control and effectiveness through tight spaces makes him a massive threat and as such, it would not matter than the pitches are smaller than the Barcelona one. What else do I need to push this point of view further? A video? Screenshots? Jump on youtube and view for yourself and then come back to tell us if indeed Messi isn't the best player in the world at this. On your claim that Aguero grew better in the premier league, I pointed out that he was actually his best in his first season.He's not scored as many goals since then. How did you come about this? On your claim that Aguero's physicality is what helps his success, I cited the successes of Mata, Silva, Santi Carzola and Michu in the PL. I asked you to back up your claims and tell us how physicality helped those players listed above. You evaded. I used the same players (and included Costa) to rubbish your claims that Messi's goals are mostly a result of shabby defending in the LaLiga. I expressed how you are leaving out fundamental elements of ball control and football intelligence; that this is the similarity between these players and the primary reason for their success in the PL. And that it is reason enough to conclude confidently that Messi will be phenomenal in the PL. Then I say "especially as he is the best in the world". I cited the goal scoring figures of Maradona (34 goals in 91 apps for Argentina) and compared them with Messi's for Argentina (45 goals in 96 apps) in response to your ridiculous claim that Messi's contribution to Argentina is "pathetic". You have said nothing in response to any of this. Instead you are coming back to say that all my responses lack depth and quality. Are you even serious? How much depth do you want? Whenever I cite continously that he is the best in the world, it is only because it is absolutely necessary as that point seems to elude you over and over. I am beginning to think you are incapable of comprehending what "best in the world" means. Then again I remember saying you must have something for Messi that extends beyond football. You are making no football sense. This is why I cannot help but conclude that you do want to be challenged. Why don't you respond to the counter arguments I offered long ago (summarised here) and see exactly where the unintelligence really lies? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Bear in mind that my reponses at this point in time do not address your point on a Messi/Fab/Matic midfield being lightweight. (I consider that a very good point and I totally agree with it). You only began talking about that though, long after your numerous errors. The core of my argument was strongly directed at all the stupid comments - starting from "Messi is past it" all the way to speaking for the "most of Argentina".

If you want to make comments that go unchallenged, you should leave. If I disagree with your comments, I will quote them and tell you why. If my counter comments irritate you, it says more of you than it does of me. You have a fixated way of looking at tactics. Because I suggest Messi on the right does not automatically mean, he is "chucked" on the right. It is what he does from the right that matters. Messi may drift in and out of the right wing. Just like Hazard does from the left. His starting point could be on the right but is allowed to interchange with the man in the hole when attacking. It's not "chucking" on the right.

There is nothing to show that Messi will be marginalised on the RW. Messi started out his senior career in Bara playing on the RW. Messi can match Willian's work rate defensively but the more important thing is that he will quadruple Willian's threat, creativity and output that pressing on the right wing will become less work for Messi than it currently is for Willian. How do I come about this? The threat that Messi carries will be so immense that most teams will play two defensive players on their left or one defender and one wing back. This negates attack on our right. So without changing system, we can keep Messi on the right, play Oscar in the hole and Matic/Fab in the pivot - excatly as we play now. If we will be lightweight with Messi on the right, then we are already lightweight.

Your comment is about saving face after you claimed Messi is passed it. When you then go ahead and claim he will not fit into our system, I have to remind you of our formation and how Messi's capacity helps him fit into everywhere. Your analysis is not incomprehensible, it's an empty opinion and just that. While you think Messi may have been passed his best, many others on here think otherwise. It's doesn't make you clever; neither does it make what you are saying the truth. Stop overstating your ill-judged comments. Stop perpetuating falsehood. As a matter of fact, Aguero's most prolific season in the PL was his very first. You are lying by claiming Aguero did not come into his own until later. All because you want to sound clever. You always sound like you don't watch enough football yet make bold comments. So what if Costa is nothing like Messi, is Costa sccoring goals only because of his physical ability? Stop this mate. You want to hide behind Aguero's physical ability right? Tell me how Silva, Carzola, Michu, Mata - to name a few - have been hugely successful in the PL in their first seasons? These players (perhaps except Michu) are infinitely lighter on the ball and way easier to dispossess than Messi is. Is this the length of your analysis? The point above shows you that it is not the difference between these players that makes them prolific in the PL but the similarities between them - Football intelligence and ability on the ball. Messi in this case, is infinitely better than all these players combined. But somehow you think he will flop. . I don't care if you are convinced or not. This is not an argument about an ordinary player having a game of his life against City, it is about the best player in the world. You stake your argument of Messi's incapability of making it the PL on a handful of Chelsea games, yet seem unwilling to consider he may be able to do it despite knowing he was briliant against City and Arsenal in the CL. It's plain hypocrisy. I just gave you an example of Messi fighting back for his team to retrieve the ball, you have managed to evade it after boldly claiming he does not have the traits to play for the team. Funny enough, I still see you speak of how he won't fit into how Jose wants us to play? Watch that video again and tell me Messi does not have the pace, energy and will to do what Jose asks. How do you keep this up? What are you disagreeing with? I said Messi has phenomenal ability to penetrate space considered very small or inexstent and as a result, the size of the pitch becomes inconsequential. What are you disagreeing with? That Messi does not have the ability? You are using 90% of common occrences in football to judge the best player that ever played the game. How you continue to do that and keep a straight face baffles me. How does JM want us to play that makes it so hard for Messi? Okay so he doesn't quite measure up to the performances of one of the legends of the game, this makes him "pathetic". Now you are wasting my time. You have nothing of sense to say. This is like claiming Thierry Henry is not all that because he never replicated his PL form for France. These are the strangest statements ever. Let's talk figures. Diego Maradona scored 34 goals in 91 apps for Argentina. Messi has scored 45 goals in 96 apps. Very obviously pathetic. Let's just bury common sense and jut take what you say as gospel. For all we care, you have probably just heard that view from one of two of your mates yet boldly claim online that Messi is nothing to "most" Argentinians. You arrogance is disturbing. It is clear you don't watch as much football to back up the football intelligence you desire to display. I should have stopped this discussion the moment you claimed Messi is past it even though he's scored 23 goals already this season.

You are wrong. We play a 4-2-3-1 system. Messi is a phenomenal player that will fit it any position across the front-line. That includes the striking position. All this talk about you claiming he may not fit in our side is garbage and only save-face talk after erroneously claiming he is already past his best. As I stated earlier, Messi has already scored 23 goals in all competitions including 8 goals in the CL. If this is your idea of a past-it player, I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't matter what you claim about defenses, City bought Aguero from this same league and he is now constantly tearing backlines apart. So did Torres. Heck we bought Costa on the back of him scoring numerous goals against rubbish defenders. He arrives in the PL and hits the ground running. If these mere mortals can shine in LaLiga and in the PL, how much more the world's best? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDW1vbgdyyQ Who cares that he never scores against us? Watch the video above and see how Messi constantly troubles the City backline. This is against one of the best backlines in the PL. What's this overrating PL defences? Watch the first few seconds especially and see how Messi chases the ball back to his own box and retrieves it. What were you saying about him sacrificing himself? Messi is a player who has phenomenal ability to penetrate space so little with the fewest touches possible, so the size of the pitch is inconsequential. When he is not running at defenders, he can play behind the striker creating chances. Messi has creates 43 chances already this season. I don't know what you are on about. Nothing you are saying makes sense. I don't care if you think Ronaldo is a better player, don't make Messi look inferior by trying to tell us how good Ronaldo is. This is one of the best players to play the gamee. You think his efforts for Argentina are pathetic. This just says everything about your opinion. Just move on to another topic please.

Double Post.

You obviously never watch the La Liga or you have a dislike for Messi that extends beyond football. I do not want Messi at any of the ridiculous prices quoted but to think that Messi, even at 27 can be put in the same bracket as Shev or Torres in their prime just shows you how much disrespect you have for Messi. Messi on one leg will be the best player in the PL by a mile from the day he walks into the league. For all your efforts of trying to make him look finished, he scored 41 goals last season. This season alone, he's scored 23. You are not trying enough. I want a player who is deemed to have past his best but still manages to score 23 goals in all competitions by January. Yes you want to stay ahead of the curve with signing players but not all the time. Makelele and Zola are perfect examples. If by a miracle, Messi is available at £60m, it will be the best bit of business ever made by Chelsea.

And Bruma, Gokhan Tore and Mancienne?

Absolutely. As is with every player that is 23. And as you have stated, he is clearly improving. If we want a player the level of Messi and Ronaldo at 23, we won't find one.

While Betrand Traore has started 9 games for Vitesse, McEachran is yet to start any of their 11 games so far.

I didn't understand that totally. I do get though that you think because of my opinions, I am in the anti-Drogba camp. Well, hate to disappoint you, I am not. What I have though is the ability to argue without the emotions involved. Not every fan is in an either or situation. There are other types. So while I absolutely loved him to bits, appreciate what he did, see him as a legend, would have then him as the number one striker on the team, I am also not blind to see the points in those who argued about his lack of technique, his diving, his fegning of injury and his indiscipline. I see them and I remember them. So when I come across a fan who tries to re-write history, I am able to say, yes he was god-like but let's not forget how he polarised opinions. That's all it is. It's easy to get carried away with emotions. Just like some Liverpool fans can't see anyting wrong in what Suarez did at the world cup. Just like Uruguayan fans on TV that suggested it was Chiellini's fault for Suarez's bite and England's fault for his subsequent ban.

How did you reach this conclusion ?