Sleeping Dave

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Posts posted by Sleeping Dave

  1. Just now, Droy was my hero said:

    We'd be better off with a back 4 so we can have 2AMs and Fabregas.  In that situation both Rudiger and Azpi become optional FBs.

    We can easily play 343 with a very attacking outlook but it's not sustainable because we don't have the numbers. 

    Untilnwe have 5 serious AMs and 3 strikers it's merely an academic discussion. We are 3 players short (4 if you accept Bats is useless). 

  2. 20 hours ago, paulw66 said:

    In resepct of the first bolded bit, what Jose has done right is buy very good players who cost a lot of money. Pogba, Matic, excess of £200m on 3 players. Of course their points per game would improve

    On the KDB bit, I am not going to get into a silly argument but he played a grand total of 132 minutes of PL football for us. He never got a proper chance, and with the talent he has, is poor management. I love(d) Jose, but he got that one badly wrong IMO. 

    From your armchair, four years on. 

    Why even bother Paul? You know what it takes for a player to play, he just didn't deliver. 

  3. 2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

    All I do know for certain is Mourinho moaned about it and now Conte is moaning about it , maybe just maybe neither of them had the influence they felt they were due .

    As for traveling around the World , it's certainly not Conte doing it is it ?

    He's got his hands full here.

    Oh I'm not saying that the claim doesn't have merit. I do think that both Mourinho and Conte think they didn't have enough say or that the money men (woman) were too tight with money/we were too slow to close deals/whatever. 

    I'm also fairly certain that Emenalo and (mainly) his scouts were responsible for keeping tabs on players across the continent so that they could add alternatives to the names the manager had identified.

    My perception of how this works (contacts with the scouting network at Chelsea through a friend in the business, reading beween the lines in interviews and connecting the dots with some logical reasoning) is that the club (Marina and her team) communicates what money the manager can spend. We have seen the loan army generating considerable funds over the last two summers. I imagine that goes into the pot of funds available. We should also remember the amortisation of player cost (transfer fee) plus wages which can be a considerable amount for a player like Morata. 

    Then I imagine that the manager/first team coach and Emenalo talk about the squad on an on-going basis to identify areas where we need to buy outside talent.  I imagine that both Conte and Emenalo proposes names to the list and that they simply rank them from top to bottom based on who's the first choice etc. Emenalo's names coming from the vast player database the Chelsea scouting team has amassed over the years while Conte's names comes from his experience of them in some way. 

    Then the list is given to Marina and her team who then proceed, with or without help from Emenalo (some conflicting stories on this one - but the most common idea is that Emenalo has an active role in some negotiations with agents) while the manager/first team coach has nothing to do with this process unless it's to contact the player and convince him he's in his plans (Fabregas and Costa examples of this). 

    I imagine that we negotiate with multiple parties for the same squad role in order to play them out over one another to get the best value. I also think that this is the reason why we leave it quite late in the windows these days. A strategy that isn't working great to be fair in this sellers market. 

    Anyhow, that's my picture of this this works. Well worked to be honest, Emenalo isn't here so I'm not sure if there's anyone proposing names to Contes targets for the coming window. Or if that had already been done by Emenalo before he left. Maybe I'm off my rocker. Maybe I'm right or perhaps somewhere in between. But I'm fairly certain that the manager has a big say in who the actual targets are. Just look at the players we've bought since Conte signed. Alonso? Morata? Zappcosta? All three has Conte written all over it. Luiz, Bats, Kante, Drinkwater, Bakayoko fees more like "Emenalo" signings (for lack of a better word). 

    Applying it to previous signings/managers... Scolari and Deco. Mourinho and Drogba/Carvalho/Ferreira/Tiago etc etc. 

  4. 1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

    Look at the flack that Emanalo got on here when not one person here knew what he actually did.

    Conte keeps saying it's not his responsibility , maybe it's not his responsibility ?

    Emenalo got flack because he was ultimately responsible for the recruitment at the club. That much is clear. Was he alone? No of course not, Marina would have been telling the manager and Emenalo what funds were available and then Emenalo and his scouts would find the targets we should go after. 

    Recruitment, the loan army and the scouting was his responsibilities. Not sure why people claim it's unclear. 

    Conte keeps saying a lot of things that isn't necessarily relevant - like he doesn't have a big enough squad (while not using the players he does have in the first place). 

    But maybe you are right. Maybe Emenalo had nothing to do with signings and maybe Conte (or whoever is the manager) doesn't either. I suppose it's Bruce Buck and Marina who travels around the world to find our next player. Or not.

  5. 6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

    But , everyone is ignoring the fact that Conte keeps harping on about not being in charge of transfers , referring to himself as coach , not manager and even wearing the track suit to get his point across.

    He's getting the blame for signing / not signing / and selling players that none of us know with any clarity that he was responsible for.

    So did JM. How many here are blaming the club for selling Lukaku, Salah or KDB? 

    No one is the answer. 

    Of course the manager has a say in who's signed and who's sold. Just because JM didn't want to sell them, doesn't mean he didn't agree to let them go after they made their feelings known. 

  6. 3 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

    Well, no. You're choosing to bend to suit yourself.

    Conte wanted to keep him at the club, what he couldn't guarantee was enough first team football for this season. Given he struggled to oust those ahead of him the previous season, the best chance he had of regular playing time was going to be out on loan. The offer of a new contract was extended to him and he declined it. Instead, he opted to leave and we obliged him. Had he stayed, he'd at best would have been 4th choice CM. The more likely situation was ending up as 5th choice because of the impending likelihood of signing another CM. 

    Now, had he opted to sign a new deal and head out on loan and impressed. He'd have possibly put himself into contention. 

    Ake was at best 5th/6th choice CB. That was the case when he returned from loan for the second half of the season. And would have remained the case had he stayed for this season. He was no better than those who were ahead of him and that still hasn't changed. He was never going to get the regular first team football here he wanted - purely because he wasn't better than what we already had then or have now. 

    Has nothing whatsoever to do with if they were academy products or not. 

    No I'm not. I just disagree with you. But everything has to be agenda-driven to you doesn't it? 

    Chalobah has been our brightest academy product for years. He showed he was good enough (clearly good enough) to be a squad player for us. We didn't have any need to buy another CM and the only reason why we did was because we let go of Chalobah and Matic. Conte could have said to Nate that you'll be 4th choice CM and I'll play three DMs regularly. That would have meant playing time for him. Even in the 343 Nate would have gotten time as long as Conte would have decided to actually use his squad - something he still doesn't do while bitching about having a small squad.

    But Conte didn't want that did he? He wanted to send Nate on another pointless loan and obviously Nate didn't want part of that since he had already showed his credentials. You don't transfer and become a starting player for a mid-table team if you're not PL ready - he clearly is and PL ready players is something we don't really have an abundance of is it? 

    Keeping Nate would have saved us at least £40m that we could have used for buying an attacker. Instead we have gotten rid of two academy products that are PL players and players that would be comparably cheap in salary. It's a derivative of the inane strategy of stock-piling CBs and DMs for no reason at all. 

    Nothing you say will make me change my mind on this. It's a huge Conte blunder and a blunder that has had a big impact on the squad composition. Add Matic, Costa and very likely Luiz and a pattern starts to emerge. Next in line is surely Willian and maybe even Pedro. Why should they be content to sit on the bench when they are among our best players? I'm sure Conte will find a suitable DM and CB to replace them with. 

    Edit: Regarding Ake - how can he be 6th choice CB when we only have five? Could we have saved £70m by not buying Bakayoko/Drinkwater and Rudiger? How much have those players actually played and could the £70m we spent on them have been spent on attacking players? How much has Drinkwater and Rudiger actually played and have either contributed more than Ake and Nate would have done and is that improvement (if any!) really worth £70m? The bleeding obvious answer is yes - £70m could have been spent much better and no, Rudiger and Drinkwater isn't £70m plus much higher wages better than Ake and Nate. It's hysterical cause you are the one who complains we don't spend enough. Maybe Conte should spend money on players who make a difference and keep the cheap PL players we already have. That's how you build a proper squad - not by replacing average players with other, much more expensive average players. 

  7. 4 minutes ago, xCELERYx said:

    Yet, you're still one of the ones who has pinned the blame on Conte for selling Ake and Chalobah in the summer. It was made very clear that Conte wanted to keep Chalobah and send him out on loan to play regularly, instead he chose to request a permeant move - just as Ake did because the guarantee of first team football wasn't there given his position in the defensive picking order. 

    Can't defend one manager and then blame another for exactly the same thing.

    You know it's not the same thing at all. Conte didn't want to keep Chalobah - he wanted to send him on his what, 7th loan despite showing he was good enough to play for us. 

    Its not the same situation. Ake the same. These are academy products. Of course they'd stayed if they thought they'd be squad players. But said players hardly play in a Conte squad - just ask Willian, Pedro or Bats. Or Drinkwater! 

  8. 20 minutes ago, Stim said:

    Conte got a season of Luiz being one of the best defenders in the league so I love him for saving me the sadness I feel when people make fun of him.

    True - Luiz was spectacular last season as the CB in a middle three. Essentially the position is perfect for him. He gets time on the ball, doesn't have to man-mark anyone and is controlling the build-up phase from the back. 

    Problem for Luiz is that Christensen quite clearly showed from day one that he is the future. He backed up his talent and promise with performances on the pitch. It would be criminal to play Luiz ahead of Christensen although I'd be sad to see him (Luiz)  leave. But maybe he's too expensive to be a back-up CB and selling him would probably be the right thing to do (as long as the fee is re-invested in an AM and not another CB/DM). 

  9. 58 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

    Dave .

    Dave is you .

    There is absolutely no need to chose between Mourinho or Conte , one is a club legend and the other is on the path to becoming one .

    Of course, makes sense now haha. I thought you were just listing various players and not started by "hey Dave listen" kind of thing. 

    Agreed - no need to choose. The club has done that for us already and someday someone else will be chosen instead of Conte. 

  10. 30 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

    There's an article on football 365 where KDB states that he pressed for a transfer instead of a loan and that Jose wanted him to stay and fight for his place instead so everyone should certainly give JM a pass on that one.


    It's universal knowledge that both KDB and Lukaku left against the managers wishes. Both players and the manager has consistently told the same story. Lukaku reiterated them when he signed for United last summer. 

    I find it hard to believe all three would lie about it. Mainly because they'd have no reason to do so. 


  11. 2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:


    Dave , Rashford , Martial , Herrera , Smalling , Mhikataryan (?) Have definitely regressed under Mourinho and personally I think despite his limited opportunities Conte has improved Bats , his hold up play has definitely improved as has his awareness of others.

    On think there is a faction here that think liking Conte is tantamount to hating Mourinho .

    I didn't want us to get rid of Jose but am now affording Conte the same loyalty but there are a few who describe ten United players cowering inside their own area as Jose's brave 4-2-4 formation and kid themselves our 3-5-2 is an ultra defensive 5-3-2 or the even more moronic assessment 8-1-1.

    As for KDB , when he played for us I heard a tale about him that led me to believe he was a dick head so personally I was happy to see the back of him , he's gone on to be a vital cog in City's behemoth so he's obviously got something , you don't agree ,which is fine but remember all those conversations you had explaining to unbelievers about the majesty of Zlatan ? This is like that .

    You are just randomply plucking names out of a hat. Rashford is a much better player today compared to when José took over. Smalling? He was always useless and I have no idea who Dave is. But considering that José has improved United from 1.61 pts/game after 18 games in 2015-16 to 2.28 pts/game after 18 games in 2017-18 he must be doing something right. 

    Let's turn it around - who has Conte improved at Chelsea? You say Bats? Seriously? Honestly, and I say this as a Conte fan, the only player Conte has improved is Moses and he was just placed in a new position. I don't think there is a single player that Conte has tangibly improved. Certainly none of the attacking players at the club during his stint. Not a single midfielder. Courtois? No. Defense? Maybe, just maybe Azpilicueta and then finding Moses a new position.  

    I don't think you hate Mourinho because you like Conte. I like Conte and Mourinho. But when you say stuff like you do above it's hard to draw any other conclusion that your hate for Mourinho clouds your judgement. 

    As for KDB - I agree he has something. I always thought he was a special talent. Just not a talent that can function properly in a side that is built on team work and his own work rate is very average. In a side like City, that has so much attacking talent that it's impossible to close one or two outlets down (because they have 5 others that can hurt you) it's a slightly different prospect. He gets time and space on the ball because his team mates are so good in their own right. If Hazard played for City he'd be scoring bucket loads of goals. Look at someone like Sterling. He's nowhere near Hazards level yet he's scoring for fun in that City side - ditto Jesus. I don't think he's all that but he's got a nose for finding the goal and playing for City he'll get a handful of chances per game. 

    Regarding Bats... He's just as useless today as he was when he was signed. I can't see any improvement whatsoever and I don't think Conte sees it either considering he's got a grand total of 469 PL minutes over a season and a half. That's roughly 5 full PL games in 16 months. Roughly what KDB amassed in his first 6 weeks at the club. Yet your conclusion is that KDB never got a chance here while Conte is improving Bats. 

    It's hard to have a sensible discussion about this (as I hope you can see from the last example).


  12. 9 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

    He's been putting in a shift on a very regular basis at City... all he needed was a manager willing to push him into doing so and trusting him to do so. Jose doesn't coach young players to become better; if a young player happens to be better than other, older players, in his position, Jose will play him, and as a result of regular playing time, they will continue to develop. However, if a young player has several older players ahead of him, Jose will not coach him to become better, because he would rather trust the older players than the youngster. In that respect he's a very lazy manager, and that's been shown in his transfer dealings over the years at various clubs.

    I laugh when I see some on here calling de Bruyne a 'passenger' or a 'luxury'.



    So. Jose hasn't improved players at United then? Any other season and they'd likely be top (or within touching distance to the leaders). Almost as good as Fergies last season at this stage. And since we are talking about one player which you so bluntly manages to transform to "Jose never do this" based on KDB, should we draw the conclusion that Conte can't improve players because Bats is just as useless as he's been day one without giving him proper opportunities to develop?


  13. 1 hour ago, Chelsea25 said:

    How anyone can defend Jose on the KDB decision is beyond me. It sounds comical when droy confidently lists a grand total of 9 sporadic appearances , with only 3 starts and justifies that because he was not decent in those meagre appearances, selling him was correct. FFS he was only played in fits and starts. 

    Truth is, there's a pattern. Certain players simply don't fit Jose's eye/system and simply aren't given an appropriate chance. Maybe he should bring about little changes in his system to get the best out of certain players of at least see of they are worth doing it so. Jose fcked up a lot the second time regarding the selling of players, and honestly doesn't seem to be the same man after Madrid. There's an air of passiveness and negativity about him, but that's for another topic.


    So what type of player has Jose discarded at United? What creative player has he sold? 

    Your post and conclusion is lazy and full of myths. Sorry to say, but there's no other conclusion to make. 20-20 is very easy - you are second guessing one of the worlds best manager 4 years after the decision was made. Surely you can see how stupid that is?

    KDB started our first three games, didn't perform and was ousted by a player that performed better. Basically what happens at all clubs evertyday of the year. When he was given chances he didn't perform while his competitors did. It really isn't difficult. 

    The nail was surely the LC game away to Swindon where he was comfortably the worst player on the pitch. On that showing he wouldn't be a starter for Swindon let alone Chelsea. I remember that game well because I absolutely slaughtered him after that performance. It was pitiful and he basically said through his performance that he wasn't up for it. Took him two and a half years to get to an acceptable level. If you think any Chelsea manager can play an underperforming player for 2,5 years you must have been sleeping since 2003. 

  14. 10 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

    Tell me, Dave, how was de Bruyne 'under-performing'? He barely played that final season - 3 PL appearances. And 'DEMANDS' to leave? Really?

    Yes REALLY Michael. 

    there's not even guesswork needed. Just plain good old reading what player and manager said at the time when he left. 

    But you seem intent on ignoring that and making up your own truth. I won't stop you as it seems important to you. 

  15. 23 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

    There's talk that Ramires might come back to Europe to Inter Milan.  That'll be interesting for those that wrote him off 2 years ago.  Still just 30.

    Well... isn't Inter playing in the Serie A? I'd have thought you'd think that was a step down from China... 😉

    10 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

    Don't tell me... you've recently been promoted to 'naval attaché' at the embassy?

    Don't tell me, you're actually 5 years old? Close? 

  16. 1 hour ago, Michael Tucker said:

    You really can't use SFL as an excuse for what happened to KdB, can you? The real Frank Lampard was shown the door at the end of the 2013/14 season. So was de Bruyne. KdB was 23 years old with a future, and Frank was 36 and (sadly) on his last legs. KdB made 3 PL appearances for Chelsea that season, before being shuttled-off to Wolfsburg.

    IMO, that was horrible decision.

    Horrible decision or not, but when an underperforming player isn't ready to fight for his place and asks, no DEMANDS, to leave against the managers wishes there's little the club can do. 

    I withold the belief that KDB wouldn't function in a Chelsea side even today - with JM or Conte. He isn't that type of player. He has one gear (second) and jogs around the pitch but has the luxury to place himself in positions where he can do damage with the ball. He can do that because City has such attacking talent and are better in every position compared to the rest of the league. 

    Try putting him behind Morata in the 5311 and see how good he'll look then. He'd be utterly useless. He plays as a CM for City - Jose and Conte asks more of their CMs and for Jose's 4231 he was nowhere near good enough at pressing to hold down a starting role as an AM. I know people were salvating over him last season as well but I'd say he was one of the reasons City didn't win the league last year - a player that made City soft. Now they are so much better than everyone else while KDB himself has taken one step forward as well. His limitations are utterly irrelevant now but they wouldn't be irrelevant if he played for us imo.

  17. 3 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

    Exactly.  But still what was clear last night was that Pedro, Willian and Hazard are superb with the ball in the opp half.  When you dominate a team as much as we did, watching Baka, Kante and the wingbacks, they are just nowhere close in ability despite getting so much more time on the ball. Time to go back to 5 players who can attack in the team, even if they do need to do the defensive work.

    Five is what City are playing with consistently. 

    We are playing two to a maximum four (including Fabregas who aren't really a player in that mould (AM)) - more like a Gundogan type if we are are to compare with them. 

    As a minimum we should be playing with Morata, Hazard, Pedro/Willian and Fabregas. That's three plus Fabregas.

    If we had the players, adopting a 433 with one DM, four AMs and a striker while having attacking FBs in a back four, would make us lethal. 

    NO wonder City are scoring so many goals. 

  18. 3 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

    I think you and I both said more or less  the same thing when we signed him. He has all the attributes to be an absolute monster of a player.  I'm sure after his recent form many will laugh at that but I stand and by it. He's still very young and is in his first season with a new club in a new country after recovering from n injury. People expect players to come over and be an instant success. It doesn't always work like that.

    What last night showed is that if he is played correctly, as in a holding midfielder rather than an attacking box to box player he has the potential to be very good. I'd like to see more of that rather than trying to get him to be something he is not.

    Agreed. We can't berate managers for not giving players like Lukaku, KDB, Salah etc a prolonged chance in the first team if we call for the players head after 5 games. 

    That kind of pressure is already on the manager from the club. It's not helpful I the fans turn on players so quickly. Just look at some of the stuff Blue Rod writes about Bakayoko yet he cried foul when KDB was sold after six months with very underwhelming performances. 

    Bakayoko will prove to be a good addition, I'm certain of it. 

  19. 8 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

    Conte's view on Backayaro, and his performance against Huddersfield tonight:

    Bakayoko played a really good game. I am very happy for him. We are talking about a player who is 23 years old. He is adapting himself to our idea of football.

    ‘Tonight I saw the best performance from Baka. I started to see what I ask, what I want: to find the right pass between the lines, to change sides, and to be solid and focused for the whole game.

    ‘I am very pleased for him, and this type of performance will improve his confidence. I repeat: I am not worried about Baka. He is a young player, and now he is starting to understand he is in a club like Chelsea, a great club. I am very happy because he showed me he has the right desire and will to improve himself and try to be better.

    ‘If I didn’t trust him, he doesn’t start tonight in an important game after a defeat and a lot of problems. To start with him shows I trust him.’

    Good to see that our manager has realistic expectations of a young midfielder who has only really had one really good season in France. 

    I'm positive he'll come good and I'm nopt worried at all. He's got the size, he's got the power and strength and he's got an excellent aerial game. It's just that his passing can be a bit unconcentrated at times - he needs to sort that out and once he does he'll be a beast. 


  20. 1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

    Full story here on BBC. It is OUTRAGEOUS. 

    A referee decided not to send their players off because he didn't want to be blamed for Spurs not winning the league. He is effectively saying, "I deliberately didn't do my job"......

    1. What if one of our players had a career threatening injury form of those tackles that he was allowing? 

    2. What if Spurs had knicked the game at the end or Hazard hadn't scored a wordly? They might have won the league due to his officiating

    3. We got fined for failing to control our players, when he was the one responsible for letting the game get out of control. 

    sorry, just read the DWMH post and realise I have duplicated. 

    This is absolutely shocking stuff and I must say I'm feeling right smug right now together with Mark and Nobly. 

    I've been saying this for YEARS and been called all sorts of things from a Mourinho apologist to being downright paranoid/retarded. 

    The FA needs to face SERIOUS consequences after this. One of their former star refs have effectively admitted on air that he made up his own rules for a game due to personal reasons. 


    Next in line for scrutiny is the video refs who overviews appeals. Matic and Barnes anyone? 

    Tip of the iceberg this. 

    1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

    It's a scandal and as the resident loony here I do feel somewhat vindicated . I'm sure it's just the tip of the iceberg .

    Yes - me, you, Nobly and a few more. 

    Never again will I accept someone saying I'm deluded for imolying cheating and corruption. 

    1 hour ago, Martin1905 said:

    Absolutely outrageous. 

    Surely something has to happen about this. It's corruption, blatant corruption and there has to be consequences. 

    The whole of the PGMOL, the FA and the Premier League needs serious consequences. 

    Mike Riley should be sacked immediately. Then his boss. And his boss. Clear out the whole organisation! Cheating fools. 

  21. ^ Maybe it has something to do with 13 wins, one draw and no losses while playing brilliant attacking football full of attacking players and speed? 44 goals scored in 14 games is pretty impressive wouldn't you agree? Continue like this and they are on track for 120 goals and 108 points over 38 games. 

    City is currently making a mockery of the ones who has said Real, B Munich, Juve and Barca are dominant in their leagues because the rest of the teams are barely Championship quality.   

    City is making the PL look like the Eredivisie at the moment. 


  22. 8 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

    Probably to replace Luiz, who I'm guessing will be sold in January. Maybe to Real, maybe elsewhere. 

    Butland and Sandro I'd take, because we need (imo) another left wingback, and a replacement for Courtois, who seems to be on his way out at the end of this season (just my reading of the contract situation).

    I doubt that we're seriously after Benteke, Moura, or Barkley other than in the media (but I could be wrong.....:).

    Yes, possibly Willian, and likely Courtois. Luiz as I said above, I think will go in January.

    Yeah like you I hope Barkley and Moura is just paper talk. Can't see either being good fits for us. Especially Moura seems like a strange one for me. 

    You're probably righ on Luiz. I wonder what really happened cause it seems there's no way back for him...