• Current Donation Goals

CFCnet Main Site

Following Chelsea's Loans

Recommended Posts

db12d1   
here:

And where did I said in that sentence that Mancienne didn't have any fault? I said the "horror mistake" mistake was made by other player and he couldn't do really much. But both don't mean that he had no fault.

Bertrand and Cork - never. I'm just guessing how good they are be based on how often Championship and PL managers pick them. I know some think that being picked for a first team is irrelevant - what counts is watching them in the reserves - but I think that is bull and won't extend that discussion here.

Instead of questioning my admitted guess (again) why don't you simply give us the benefit of your opinion.

Seriously you talking about ridiculous? Judging player without seeing them is ridiculous and more ridiculous is judging players only based on how often they play (last season they both played more than 80% of their games). I haven't seen both much so I don't judge them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jangz   
in more uplifting news, stochs fc twente won against utrecht with stoch winning the penalty which wasnt converted. Highlights Here stoch has some dangerous balls into the box, some decent dribbling and played on the left wing mostly. Was a bit greedy though, could have done a lateral pass to his team mate but chose to take a shot(although I'm not sure he could see the guy till the last minute) He was also using is strength to hold back defenders. Tracked back and won the ball a couple of times too.

thanks for the link.. thought the first goal conceded by fc twente was really hilarious...hmm .. haven't seen much of dutch team s exept cl matches and old ajax and some psv matches.... but sincerly hope stoch finds tougher oppostion .. though nothing to take anything away from the lad.. he has been really good during this spell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hanuma   
Cock ups seem to be happening regularly this season with Ivanovic, I wouldn't know about Mancienne.
He's always been prone and seemingly still is.
and yes he was slow in getting to it, but he had to slide
No he didn't have to slide at all, because he didn't HAVE to make contact with the ball that far away from the goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And where did I said in that sentence that Mancienne didn't have any fault? I said the "horror mistake" mistake was made by other player and he couldn't do really much. But both don't mean that he had no fault.
You are splitting hairs here. A common occurrence with you - you say a million, I say zero, and you say, no it must be 2 or 3, you are completely wrong. Bazzatalk.
Seriously you talking about ridiculous? Judging player without seeing them is ridiculous and more ridiculous is judging players only based on how often they play (last season they both played more than 80% of their games). I haven't seen both much so I don't judge them.
Here we disagree more simply. You seem to think that your opinion is valid, while that of Professional Managers of PL or Championship clubs isn't. I think that they are the experts.

We differ.

both have over 85 league and cup appearances in the past 3 years..
Which is precisely why I was so positive about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
db12d1   
Here we disagree more simply. You seem to think that your opinion is valid, while that of Professional Managers of PL or Championship clubs isn't. I think that they are the experts.

We differ.

So, according to that way of thinking, Kalou getting pick up by CL managers means he world class?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lot of opinions on Mancienne I see. Sure, he didn't need to slide. But he did. All in all it was a mistake by the other defender to start with and what happened thereafter could happen to anyone, even Terry or Riccy. I am quite sure that both Riccy and Terry would have slid in just like Mancienne did. They have done so in the past but with a different outcome.

Second goal (corner kick) Mancienne was planted to the ground. More blame there I think.

Nonetheless, I do know quite a few Wolves fans and they are all over the moon for Mancienne. They see him as their best CB by some distance. I do see him more as a RB than CB to be honest. He seems a bit too short and weak to play at CB for a club like Chelsea. But still, a tremendous talent and someone we should give a chance next season.

Sinclair and Di santo I am not so sure about. Bertrand, Stoch, Van Aanholt and Cork looking good so far. Could potentially feature next season in some capacity? That;s 5 (incl Mancienne) that would count as "home grown" in addition to Sturridge, Turnbull, A Cole, J Cole, Lampard, Terry, Hutchinson, Sinclair and potentially Kakuta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mancienne has been at fault a few times for wolves.

He lost he's man for the 2nd goal yesterday too , and he lost Adebayor 2 weeks ago which led to Adebayor scoring, and a few other mistakes which could of been costly

I will let him off for Dioufs goal because it was a poor pass back to him.

He hasnt impressed me at all.

I get the feeling that some folks are being unnecessarily harsh in their critism. I did not watch Mike's last game but I sure did watch the 0-1 loss to Man City. First of all, regardless of how he played against a beast like Adebayor, conceeding only 1 goal in 90mins playing for relegation bound Wolves is not a bad outing. Secondly, the goal that Adebayor scored in that game was not solely his fault and was more of a brilliant piece of work by a top level striker who took advantage of a defense spliting pass which gave mike little time to react. The one play where Ade left Mike for dead occurred high up the pitch and did not result in a goal. I also saw some highlights of his last game and can't understand how folks are blaming him for 2 if not all of the goals. Some fans need to get a grip. This is wolves not chelsea. His defense has only allowed 7 goals in 5 games. That's good work. The problem is they have only scored 3 goals - total - in 5 games. Either wolves has been terribly inaccurate in shooting, unlucky with balls hitting the woodwork or maybe, just maybe they have been playing a chunk of the 5 games in their half which will certainly lead to more errors than a defender playing with JT, ashley, bosingwa & sheltered by Essien, Lamps & Ballack. My point is, the boy is making steady progress and I hope Mick McCarthy will continue to have faith in the young man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zoffie   

Mancienne is a catalogue of errors, so many times I see him with his feet planted firmly on the ground, just looking around when the defence is in crisis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, according to that way of thinking, Kalou getting pick up by CL managers means he world class?

Subject close to my heart.

YES - you are right. He plays a lot which is certainly a very good argument for him being good. Just as Cork and Bertrand playing a lot is a good indication that they are good at the level they play at.

If I want to oppose that view for Kalou I must develop a very strong argument backed by a lot of evidence and convincing explanation. Certainly just to say that I have watched him and know he is rubbish would be a pretty pathetic argument, unlikely to convince anyone

Part of my argument against Kalou is an assessment of what he can do - his potential - which I have gone into great detail with elsewhere. The rest (below) is an explanation of how come he has been picked so often.

Basically the Chelsea managers have had no choice because their squads were so small and so unbalanced. Better ask who allowed the squads to be so weak.

Under JM, Kalou was 3rd choice striker and never picked ahead of Sheva except when Sheva was injured or explicitly injured.

Under Grant, Kalou was third choice winger, and rarely picked ahead of Joe Cole or Malouda.

Under Scolari & Hiddink, he was 5th choice winger and rarely picked ahead of Joe Cole, Malouda, Deco or Anelka.

He got a lot of starts because he was:

3rd of 3 strikers under Jose's 442.

4th of 4 wingers under Grant's 433.

4th of 4 wingers under Scolari/Hiddink's 433 (5th once Drogba made Anelka available, and I exclude Stoch & Quaresma).

The question is now that the CL managers did - they really had no choice given the formation they wanted to play, and they did their best to play other players ahead of Kalou.

The questions are:

- why we only had 3 strikers in the squad in 2006 given the managers desire to play 442.

- why we then bought Pizarro and Anelka but Grant choose to change to 433 with just 4 wingers including SWP who often played midfield on the books?

- why we had just 10 established midfielders and attackers throughout last season for 6 positions (10 + Mineiro + Quaresma)?

It is hardly surprising that Kalou has played so much - indeed it has been entirely predictable from Summer 2006. You really can't blame the man who picks the team week in week out.

So who was the idiot that picked the squads? It might have been the CL managers - in which case they were idiots whatever we think of Kalou. Or it might have been someone(s) else - which leads to a set of points I have been making for some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
db12d1   
Basically the Chelsea managers have had no choice because their squads were so small and so unbalanced. Better ask who allowed the squads to be so weak.

If those managers thought that Kalou is championship player, like you think, he was long gone. Why did he stayed here for four season (including that one), if he so weak player? Why no replacement came?

But that not the issue, the issue is that judging player without seeing him and basing all on what managers think is wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now