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Following Chelsea's Loans

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Posted (edited)

Musonda looks set to be with the squad next season. Quite exciting, as I have always thought he would be great both in 3-4-3 and 4-2-4. Would be strange if he did not get any game time, everyone at the club rates him highly and knows how critical game time is for him after a "wasted" year.

Colkett to Vitesse is exciting. In my opinion one of the most talented players from our academy in recent years, but perhaps he is too one-dimensional to succeed under Conte? Much more a Fabregas type of player than Baker. Will obviously replace Baker at Vitesse, and will get to test himself in the EL as well. Big step from L1. And with Mason Mount likely to go there too, Vitesse will be very interesting to follow next season.

On the PL loans:

Tammy: have a feeling we have gotten guarantees over playing time. With many clubs interested, and Newcastle rumoured to have completed the deal only for it to take a u-turn, Swansea surely has had to put an interesting offer on the table. With Clement there, and quick attacking players around him, I think Swansea is the best place for him to be. Unless, of course, Swansea splash 30mp on a top CF on deadline day.

Palmer to Huddersfield is great, he is clearly valued by Wagner. They have signed a lot of attacking players though, and I fear he ends up in a super-sub role chasing deficits in the dying minutes of games against tougher opposition. Hopefully he can nail down that no 10 role behind Mounié, but he will need to showcase himself early on.

RLC looks set to go to Newcastle, who is in need for a new number ten, and if he gets a key role there he could really flourish. Especially if they end up getting Sturridge - that could be a decent up front duo.

If Brown gets himself a PL loan to Brighton, I will be very surprised if he manages to make much of an impact. A talented player, but from what I have seen of him some way off that level.

Have not seen any rumours about Baker. Some journalist (don't remember who) claimed he was set to get a PL loan, but why has he not been linked to any clubs? Would surely be on many clubs' radar. Bournemouth has a pretty lame CM ... Or is he staying with us?

 

Edited by jones

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1 hour ago, Juni said:

This is half the problem though, the loanees are held to different standards than new signings - not to say they're the wrong standards - but if you're holding up Courtois as the bastion of necessary achievement then it begs the question as to how Alonso, Moses, Luiz, Batshuayi, Zouma and countless others who've come and gone didn't play to anywhere near the comparable standard before they were signed. I know age becomes a factor and with it comes the necessary experience to mask flaws more readily, but it's clear we don't hold new signings to the same standards.

Alonso, Moses Luiz (or Luis) Bats have all played a lot of games at a decent level though before they played for us.  Moses did get 12 PL starts for us in his first season but then he did already have 78 PL appearances and 58 championship appearances for Wigan and Palace already - not bad for a 21 year old (and been sent away for another 59 appearances).  Likewise the 19 year old Zouma had 63 Ligue 1 appearances behind him when he arrived at Chelsea (including 6 months on loan back to St Etienne, and a 10 game gap in his record we don't talk about much).

These guys have a) been up against full grown men on a regular basis, b) been observed in adult games and shown to be up to it, c) learnt from the experience.  

I can see no reason at all why our Academy players can be considered their equal - at least until they have had a season or two as successful as Tammy or Courtois or Bertrand had.

27 minutes ago, jones said:

Tammy: have a feeling we have gotten guarantees over playing time.

I refuse to believe that a PL club would guarantee playing time for a 20  19 year old.
Some verbal assurances perhaps - particularly directly to Tammy.  But in the end it is up to Tammy to grab the place himself.

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8 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

I refuse to believe that a PL club would guarantee playing time for a 20  19 year old.
Some verbal assurances perhaps - particularly directly to Tammy.  But in the end it is up to Tammy to grab the place himself.

They may need him if we do buy Llorente seeing as Gomis has already gone.

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12 hours ago, jones said:

Musonda looks set to be with the squad next season. Quite exciting, as I have always thought he would be great both in 3-4-3 and 4-2-4. Would be strange if he did not get any game time, everyone at the club rates him highly and knows how critical game time is for him after a "wasted" year.

Colkett to Vitesse is exciting. In my opinion one of the most talented players from our academy in recent years, but perhaps he is too one-dimensional to succeed under Conte? Much more a Fabregas type of player than Baker. Will obviously replace Baker at Vitesse, and will get to test himself in the EL as well. Big step from L1. And with Mason Mount likely to go there too, Vitesse will be very interesting to follow next season.

On the PL loans:

Tammy: have a feeling we have gotten guarantees over playing time. With many clubs interested, and Newcastle rumoured to have completed the deal only for it to take a u-turn, Swansea surely has had to put an interesting offer on the table. With Clement there, and quick attacking players around him, I think Swansea is the best place for him to be. Unless, of course, Swansea splash 30mp on a top CF on deadline day.

Palmer to Huddersfield is great, he is clearly valued by Wagner. They have signed a lot of attacking players though, and I fear he ends up in a super-sub role chasing deficits in the dying minutes of games against tougher opposition. Hopefully he can nail down that no 10 role behind Mounié, but he will need to showcase himself early on.

RLC looks set to go to Newcastle, who is in need for a new number ten, and if he gets a key role there he could really flourish. Especially if they end up getting Sturridge - that could be a decent up front duo.

If Brown gets himself a PL loan to Brighton, I will be very surprised if he manages to make much of an impact. A talented player, but from what I have seen of him some way off that level.

Have not seen any rumours about Baker. Some journalist (don't remember who) claimed he was set to get a PL loan, but why has he not been linked to any clubs? Would surely be on many clubs' radar. Bournemouth has a pretty lame CM ... Or is he staying with us?

 

Good post, lots to discuss.

Musonda: Am surprised he's staying. He's very talented but needs game time and his body still needs to develop. Can only see him getting bit part roles in the cups and the odd start. 

Colkett: Big step up for him and he has much more to learn and develop before taking the next step. Has the technique and passing range, but needs to develop other facets of his game.

Tammy: Think we need to slightly dampen our expectation as many seem to expect him to carry on scoring goals for fun. It may take him some time, he may not have a great season at all, but again it's a learning curve and a real step up for him. We should be level headed with Tammy and give him time. He's still learning, he's still developing.

Palmer: Yes, good loan for him and I think the reaction to his signing is quite telling as it's been received very positively by their supporters. This a very big step for him and he too will need to be handled carefully with our expectations tempered.

RLC: Desperately needs a loan, desperately needs game time. Wherever he does go (even if it's the Championship), he needs to play.

Brown: Surprise a sale isn't in the works. Maybe the plan is to extend his contract in view of a future sale. 

Baker: I'd keep Baker who at the age of 22 (turning 23 during the course of the upcoming season) I think it's time to take a decision on. Hope he doesn't go the way of Ake and Traore and is sold. He's so talented. 

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9 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I refuse to believe that a PL club would guarantee playing time for a 20  19 year old.
Some verbal assurances perhaps - particularly directly to Tammy.  But in the end it is up to Tammy to grab the place himself.

I disagree. Tammy is and was an extremely prized asset, with three to four PL clubs desperate to recruit him. Both Chelsea and Tammy could cherry pick. Which club offer the best deal? The only way Swansea would have been able to recruit Tammy at this point is if they told him "we want you as our number one" and if they briefed Chelsea on their transfer window plans, e.g., not intending to buy another CF. It follows implicitly that he will have to earn that spot, but it is a big difference from "welcome to the club, good luck on fighting for a spot" as Bamford at Palace seemed to get. 

I don't rule out any incentivising clauses in that deal too. For example, if he does not start/play a minimum number of games they have to pay a fee or we can recall him. The club is desperate for Tammy to be a Chelsea star, and if there is one loan deal they have spent extra time on making sure is the best one, then it is Tammy's.

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3 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

They may need him if we do buy Llorente seeing as Gomis has already gone.

Indeed - and any evidence demonstrating an intention to use him a lot will be an important factor in deciding where to place him.

1 hour ago, jones said:

I disagree. Tammy is and was an extremely prized asset, with three to four PL clubs desperate to recruit him. Both Chelsea and Tammy could cherry pick. Which club offer the best deal? The only way Swansea would have been able to recruit Tammy at this point is if they told him "we want you as our number one" and if they briefed Chelsea on their transfer window plans, e.g., not intending to buy another CF. It follows implicitly that he will have to earn that spot, but it is a big difference from "welcome to the club, good luck on fighting for a spot" as Bamford at Palace seemed to get. 

I don't rule out any incentivising clauses in that deal too. For example, if he does not start/play a minimum number of games they have to pay a fee or we can recall him. The club is desperate for Tammy to be a Chelsea star, and if there is one loan deal they have spent extra time on making sure is the best one, then it is Tammy's.

I think we agree.  Assurances he will play will have been a big factor.  Clearing the decks to make room for him would have been a big factor.  A play or return agreement seems a good idea.  But a guarantee, no.  The last thing anyone wants is Tammy turning out week in week out in a terrible run of form, and being taken off after 55 minutes every game.  He is just 19, and his form is quite likely to be variable right now.

 

 

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If you had asked me a few years ago about Dom Solanke and Tammy Abraham, I would have guessed that Dom was in the better position. Now, I think its completely reversed. Dom did well at Vitesse but remained sidelined all last season. Tammy got a couple of appearances in our first team, capitalised on a loan to a decent club in the championship and earned himself a step up. Dom will be playing for LFC reserves and hoping for an opportunity in the domestic cups. Tammy will be a first team player at Swansea. If Tammy plays, he will not be under pressure as a lone striker and I expect him to make solid progress this season.I wonder how the choices made by the players at the age of 19 will affect their careers going forward.

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