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25 minutes ago, chelboy said:

What can he do differently? He has only been out of the game for a year. Can’t see him changing in the long term. He will always be the same and get quick improvements then suddenly sink and crash. I will bet on him to win a trophy or two but I will double bet on him leaving Spurs in awful situation and much worse than Poch left them in. 

Thats what makes coaches like Pep, Klopp and  Poch good project managers. When they leave there is still something there to be worked with. The team has an identity and players of good age who can carry on for a while. 

Look how Jose left us in 2015. That became a mess  especially with the players he let go and we had no identity in our style of play either. We also had some older players who probably needed replacing . 

The way he left Inter an ageing team without many players that could play for the next 3-5 years. Left Man U with bad recruitment and over paid players with no identity in style of play. I couldn’t think of a worse manager to appoint in hope of creating a long term project.  

Is it really worth winning a trophy then creating a mess for the next 3-4 years that you have to recover from?  Jose can be the person to win them a trophy but he can also be the person that takes them back to where they came from and being a 6-8th position team who gets spanked by the big boys. 

Well, there is a lot he can do differently. Not all managers just follow the same pattern of their previous jobs, he has for the last decade and it has not really worked that well, so he has to make changes.

The first change has already happened, new backroom staff. Its not the same old faces, creating the same old atmosphere in and around the club.

He can change his style of play, he can change his tactics and overall philosophy, he can change with how he chooses to interact and manage players, he can change his transfer policy, he can change his behavior with the press/media and other managers.

You have to remember he has taken this job because his stock is as low as it has been since pre Porto days. Its too risky to just come in at spurs and do everything the same as he has for the last 15 years, because if he does then you are right in what will happen. He is not stupid though, he knows this has to be different, he knows football has evolved without him in recent years and he knows this has to be a new Mourinho. 

Edited by LeBoeufsGolfBall

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6 minutes ago, chelboy said:

Did I not just say Inter and Man u? Left them with nothing good to be worked with for the next manager in the longer term. 

Inter - they did well next season 2nd and CL QF.  After dumping Benitez quickly, Leonardo went on a Serie A record breaking run of 33 points in 13 games.  Strong set of players clearly.
Problems at Inter happened later, Leonardo went, and the owner tried to sell the club.

Man U is complicated, because he started with a complete mess of sub par players.  Woodward surely takes much of the blame post SAF.  Even now though it is as strong than 2016.

24 minutes ago, chelboy said:

Look how Jose left us in 2015. That became a mess  especially with the players he let go and we had no identity in our style of play either. We also had some older players who probably needed replacing . 

PFFFFF - if only Conte had left us in such a mess.  I don't think you have thought 2015 through.

So that is Porto left strong, Chelsea left very strong, Inter left strong, RM left very strong, Chelsea left very strong, Man U left much the same.
An incredible record of both success at clubs and at leaving strong sustainable teams behind.

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chara   
6 minutes ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

Well, there is a lot he can do differently. Not all managers just follow the same pattern of their previous jobs, he has for the last decade and it has not really worked that well, so he has to make changes.

The first change has already happened, new backroom staff. Its not the same old faces, creating the same old atmosphere in and around the club.

He can change his style of play, he can change his tactics and overall philosophy, he can change with how he chooses to interact and manage players, he can change his transfer policy, he can change his behavior with the press/media and other managers.

You have to remember he has taken this job because his stock is as low as it has been since pre Porto days. Its too risky to just come in at spurs and do everything the same as he has for the last 15 years, because if he does then you are right in what will happen. He is not stupid though, he knows this has to be different, he knows football has evolved without him in recent years and he knows this has to be a new Mourinho. 

Of course he CAN change..anyone can BUT do you really think Jose at this stage in his career will change?..I'm sure there are more observant members out there who can enlighten me but I cannot come up with any coach/manager who did/ has changed  his approach to a noticeable degree?

One way it may work for Jose is if his"new" coaching team actually coach a different line than Jose's usual way. I don't see Jose's ego allowing that.

Again I wish him luck...of course I don't want Spurs to succeed..or any one..at our expense but unless our competition is of quality what value is success?...look at La Liga for example...top two plus maybe three others followed by also rans....try facing EPL relegationed threatened sides in February say..a dog fight apart from maybe one doomed side most years.....so good luck Jose but not too much against us!

Last question..how long will Jose be flavour of the day?

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2 minutes ago, chara said:

Of course he CAN change..anyone can BUT do you really think Jose at this stage in his career will change?..I'm sure there are more observant members out there who can enlighten me but I cannot come up with any coach/manager who did/ has changed  his approach to a noticeable degree?

Well Wenger went from an immense back 5 and added pace up front and that evolved to a team that only had pace up front.

I don't think it is a question of what JM can do but what he has been asked to do.

Almost all his career JM has been given one of the best two sets of teams in his league and told to go out and win stuff.   And he has done that mostly or gone up in flames trying.  The exceptions have been his first coaching year,  his first 2 years at Man U and 13/14 at Chelsea.
His job has been to fine tune great squads.  And to win with the better team.

That leads directly 1.  Sort out the defence.  2.  Make sure you can go flat out attack if you need to.   3. Transitional counter-attack.  4. You never need to use 2.

It is what most great teams do.  SAF did 1 3 4 and a lot of 2.  (Conte did 1 3 & 4).  It what the best team should do.  Even City and Liverpool do it a lot (albeit they like to use 2 when the game is won).

In 13/14 at Chelsea and his first two years at Man U he prepared his teams to become one of the best two teams in the country (82 points at each).

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40 minutes ago, chara said:

Of course he CAN change..anyone can BUT do you really think Jose at this stage in his career will change?..I'm sure there are more observant members out there who can enlighten me but I cannot come up with any coach/manager who did/ has changed  his approach to a noticeable degree?

One way it may work for Jose is if his"new" coaching team actually coach a different line than Jose's usual way. I don't see Jose's ego allowing that.

Again I wish him luck...of course I don't want Spurs to succeed..or any one..at our expense but unless our competition is of quality what value is success?...look at La Liga for example...top two plus maybe three others followed by also rans....try facing EPL relegationed threatened sides in February say..a dog fight apart from maybe one doomed side most years.....so good luck Jose but not too much against us!

Last question..how long will Jose be flavour of the day?

He simply has to change. I don’t think it’s even up for debate.

I think he realises this too. It’s not quite last chance saloon for him, but if we get a repeat of his last three jobs then his career as an elite level club manager is over. He won’t have the luxury of supplementing his CV with a league title to justify himself at Spurs.

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35 minutes ago, chara said:

Last question..how long will Jose be flavour of the day?

17 teams have broken 80 points in the last decade.  JM managed 3 of them.  Other include Conte 1, Ranieri 1, Klopp 1, Pochh 1, SAF quite a few, Rogers 1, Pep 3 Benitez 1 Pelly a couple (a lot of ex-Chelsea managers in there).
I'd say he is remains much more than flavour of the day.  Indeed just the opposite - he is surely the only manager ever to have as many PL titles as Manager of the month awards.

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Just now, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

He simply has to change. I don’t think it’s even up for debate.

I think he realises this too. It’s not quite last chance saloon for him, but if we get a repeat of his last three jobs then his career as an elite level club manager is over. He won’t have the luxury of supplementing his CV with a league title to justify himself at Spurs.

I think it will be a long time before any manager completes more than 3 consecutive years at RM again,  or 2 and a half at Chelsea or 2 and a half at Man U.  Certainly the next manager who wins the PL with Chelsea or 2nd with Man U will be judged a total success.

Frankly I can't work out how you can imply his last 3 jobs weren't successes?  Man U fans sing his name.

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anderslj   

In JM's last three full seasons, he has:

- 1 premier league

- 1 europa league

- 2 carabao cups

- premier league runner up

- fa cup final. 

Only Pep can beat that. Jose clearly has his (season 3) issues, but to suggest that he is not still capable of achieving success is just not based on fact. 

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3 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I think it will be a long time before any manager completes more than 3 consecutive years at RM again,  or 2 and a half at Chelsea or 2 and a half at Man U.  Certainly the next manager who wins the PL with Chelsea or 2nd with Man U will be judged a total success.

Frankly I can't work out how you can imply his last 3 jobs weren't successes?  Man U fans sing his name.

Because success cannot just be measured by trophies. He won minor cups at Man Utd, despite spending a shed load of money.

Yep he got Madrid over the line for one title against a strong rival, but he also lost two others to them and didn’t really get that close to winning CL. Yet they won three since he left ( I’m sure you will claim them on his behalf) and again having huge finances available to him.

His second spell at Chelsea has been done to death.

Trophies are important, but they are not everything . Pochettino won nothing at Spurs, Juande Ramos won the league cup for Spurs. Yet we all know who the better manager is and who done a better job .

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chara   
1 hour ago, chara said:

 

Last question..how long will Jose be flavour of the day?

Sorry..should have phrased the question better...How long will Jose be the Media flavour of the day over his appointment and early days?

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