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2 minutes ago, Ham said:

Then why did you go on to make comparisons with Brexiteers, Daily Mail and Sun readers etc? 

You CAN champion equality whilst opposing BLM as a movement. 

My point was that there is considerable mainstream tolerance and acceptance of centre, centre right and right views in this country that would, generally, sit in opposition to the views of those who are part of or expose support of BLM. The Government's majority, the support for Brexit, the large readership of those newspapers etc. demonstrate that well. Anyone who challenges BLM's existence, effectiveness, political or moral perspectives etc. is in well-populated company, and not on the margins.

There is of course also considerable mainstream and popular support for BLM (although, as I said, I think much of it quite shallow). 

I'm commenting on the prevalence and acceptance of political and philosophical perspectives, not their rights and wrongs.

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Ham   
27 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

My point was that there is considerable mainstream tolerance and acceptance of centre, centre right and right views in this country that would, generally, sit in opposition to the views of those who are part of or expose support of BLM. The Government's majority, the support for Brexit, the large readership of those newspapers etc. demonstrate that well. Anyone who challenges BLM's existence, effectiveness, political or moral perspectives etc. is in well-populated company, and not on the margins.

There is of course also considerable mainstream and popular support for BLM (although, as I said, I think much of it quite shallow). 

I'm commenting on the prevalence and acceptance of political and philosophical perspectives, not their rights and wrongs.

Noted.  Just wanted to highlight the distinction for me and many others. 

 

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Sciatika   

I wonder how many Chelsea fans were in Liverpool to cause all the trouble there.

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20 hours ago, chara said:

I'm not so sure yours is such a minority view.....

 

8 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Do you honestly think scepticism or even more explicit disagreement with or hostility towards BLM is a 'minority view'?

I do think it is a minority view, considering that mainstream media, the political establishment and most corporations are all massively in favour of this movement. 

Just like with the Pride festival, BLM has been hijacked by the radical and moderate left for other purposes and they are massively supported by the establishment. 

I reckon it’s mostly conservatives and reasonable leftists that are opposing to the movement. Some voice it, most do not. 

Then you have the downright nationalists and racists who obviously aren’t supporting this no matter what. They are probably the noisy section of the opposition. So yeah, I consider a massively negative attitude to BLM as the minority view. It’s built upon the same poisonous intersectionality that post-modernism are resting upon, creating victims and not heroes. Absolute loser mentality that humankind would do a lot better without. 

9 hours ago, Jasonb said:

My health has never been great so have looked into this a little more.

Morgan Freeman and Denzil Washington have voiced concerns this group is doing more damage than helping and Washington said the real issue is one parent families with no male role model. Kevin Hurley Ex-Met chief said the same thing about one parent families having children much more likely to offend. He said last year 16 deaths in police custody, only one was black so where was the problem. 

All the reasonable intellectuals that happen to be black are opposing BLM and rightly so.

They are an absolute farce and would be better described as neo-Marxists, stupid white middle class, anarchists or fascists.

 

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2 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

I do think it is a minority view, considering that mainstream media, the political establishment and most corporations are all massively in favour of this movement. 

They were all massively in favour of Hillary Clinton and Remain - didn't make Trump or Brexit a minority view.  It does make it an under-represented one.

2 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

Just like with the Pride festival, BLM has been hijacked by the radical and moderate left for other purposes and they are massively supported by the establishment. 

Well yes, just like Pride or the Countryside alliance all kinds of groups have joined in from the sidelines and claimed that BLM/Pride/CA supports proves their cause.

But unlike those two with BLM all kinds of other groups have used the chaos of BLM to target specific groups and blame them.  
For me the whole reason to stay away from BLM is because so few of those supporting (or condemning) it really understand either what it means or what most others think it means.
The topic is a mess and destroying the Labour party right now for reasons that have nothing to do with BLM or anti-semitism, just a determination to take what ever tools arise to take vengeance.

3 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

All the reasonable intellectuals that happen to be black are opposing BLM and rightly so.

Well that would exclude Uncle Tom Freeman then.  And except in the extremely rare situation where comments on BLM are given in full context, most statements should be treated as "on the one hand..., on the other hand not printed" media interpretations.

3 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

They are an absolute farce and would be better described as neo-Marxists, stupid white middle class, anarchists or fascists.

Thing is that the US right and Trump are desperately trying to prove that the riots are evidence of a violent Antifa movement being active in trying to remove Trump and intrinsic to the Dems' campaign.  To a very small extent they are right.  The next election will largely depend convincing voters it is true to a large extent.  
Which makes it an another issue that is too full of agendas to discuss objectively.

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15 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

I do think it is a minority view, considering that mainstream media, the political establishment and most corporations are all massively in favour of this movement. 

Just like with the Pride festival, BLM has been hijacked by the radical and moderate left for other purposes and they are massively supported by the establishment. 

Sure it's no surprise to you that I don't agree, and I think you have things the wrong way round.

BLM is very explicitly a radical leftist organisation and movement; it's philosophy is expressly anti-racist, anti-patriarchy and anti-capitalist. If anything, it has been "hijacked" by a centre ground that positions itself as moderate, reasoned, sensible ... How many members of the public attending recent marches/protests, or MPs and companies tweeting support do we think do we think really want to significantly disrupt the political status quo? Most public support for BLM is very shallow and not even close to what I'd call "massively in favour"; retailers have calculated they'd lose more customers by not saying anything, and even the Labour leader has been lukewarm in his reaction to direct action, criticising it in much the same terms as Johnson or Patel did.

There is a massive desire to not be labelled as racist among the mainstream media, political establishment, and corporations, and that's about as far as their "pro"-BLM positon goes imo. 

Perhaps the wording "I am against BLM" would be a minority view, but being against what BLM stands for and aims to achieve is very much the norm, I'd guess even amongst many of those who'd identify themselves as part of the movement.

Edited by thevelourfog
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10 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

There is a massive desire to not be labelled as racist among the mainstream media, political establishment, and corporations, and that's about as far as their "pro"-BLM positon goes imo. 

Precisely.  

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3 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

Nice one.
If you’re like me and you instinctively just switched over the BBC One, 

No - as Chelsea fans we have been doing this a long time.  Bang on 90 mins, we switch the telly off, even when we have won, knowing there is nothing good going to be on afterwards on any channel.

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