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chara   

Sorry missed a point..in COLORADO..all gun transfers require a background check..just get caught with an illegal firearm...

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Jasonb   

I've been stalked a couple of times after going to the police once and no-one would tell me what happened.

If I could legally,  I would carry a concealed handgun.

By law here you can obtain a shotgun though not for defense for clay -pidgeon shooting I believe. 

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Sciatika   

One of the problems we have in the UK is that too many of our kids imagine that our problems, which there are many, are the same as the problems in the US. They aren't. We very rarely see deaths on our streets as a result of police actions. In the last ten years, 163 people have died in police custody in England and Wales according to the IOPC. Of these 163 deaths: 140 were white, 13 were black and 10 were from other minority groups. However, for blacks, the rate-per-1000 of the population is about twice as high as it is for whites although it is still quite low. We do see a lot of behaviours that seem to target black communities such as stop and search (or, at least, they are perceived as such). One of the reasons for this is that blacks tend to live in poorer, urban communities with a greater prevalence of the crimes that are associated with it.

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Ham   
5 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

One of the problems we have in the UK is that too many of our kids imagine that our problems, which there are many, are the same as the problems in the US. They aren't. We very rarely see deaths on our streets as a result of police actions. In the last ten years, 163 people have died in police custody in England and Wales according to the IOPC. Of these 163 deaths: 140 were white, 13 were black and 10 were from other minority groups. However, for blacks, the rate-per-1000 of the population is about twice as high as it is for whites although it is still quite low. We do see a lot of behaviours that seem to target black communities such as stop and search (or, at least, they are perceived as such). One of the reasons for this is that blacks tend to live in poorer, urban communities with a greater prevalence of the crimes that are associated with it.

The main justification for stop and search in black communities is as a result of black on black crime.  

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Sciatika   

Probably. I was making the point that protesting about the use of physical force by US police officers fails to speak to the issues of UK people.

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Jasonb   
40 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

One of the problems we have in the UK is that too many of our kids imagine that our problems, which there are many, are the same as the problems in the US. They aren't. We very rarely see deaths on our streets as a result of police actions. In the last ten years, 163 people have died in police custody in England and Wales according to the IOPC. Of these 163 deaths: 140 were white, 13 were black and 10 were from other minority groups. However, for blacks, the rate-per-1000 of the population is about twice as high as it is for whites although it is still quite low. We do see a lot of behaviours that seem to target black communities such as stop and search (or, at least, they are perceived as such). One of the reasons for this is that blacks tend to live in poorer, urban communities with a greater prevalence of the crimes that are associated with it.

I agree with this and another factor besides poverty is absent fathers, Denzil Washington has said this in the States and the former Met Chief from Surrey, Kevin Hurley has said the same.

I got the wrong train into London once and saw something strange after noticing a mixed race woman wailing and covering her daughter or grand daughters eyes.

I got up and went to investigate to see two large afro-Caribbean youths jumping up and punching a small white boy in the back of the head repeatedly. I called for them to stop yet they didn't hear me I literally had to lean across the seats and put my hands forward telling them to stop. Only then did they hear me and then came towards me. I backed up putting my hands up telling them to calm down, as I didn't want to make assumptions and give them the benefit of the doubt. 

As it happened we were approaching a stop as they came for me at the doors, I had nowhere to go and then clenched my fists angling my body so only one could approach at the time. Then one of the passengers tapped the larger black chap on the shoulder as he wanted to get off and then they noticed they were surrounded by other passengers and also got off. IN getting off one tried to headbut me as I cheek bone ached later.

I sat back down and a number of elderly black people approached one patting me on the back and another saying those kids gave Black people a bad name.

At the terminal I jogged to catch up with the kid who told me they wanted his old cracked phone. I said I could not believe he did not have bruises and he said the back of his head was really painful, he was not interested in going to the police. 

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chara   
8 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

I agree with this and another factor besides poverty is absent fathers, Denzil Washington has said this in the States and the former Met Chief from Surrey, Kevin Hurley has said the same.

I got the wrong train into London once and saw something strange after noticing a mixed race woman wailing and covering her daughter or grand daughters eyes.

I got up and went to investigate to see two large afro-Caribbean youths jumping up and punching a small white boy in the back of the head repeatedly. I called for them to stop yet they didn't hear me I literally had to lean across the seats and put my hands forward telling them to stop. Only then did they hear me and then came towards me. I backed up putting my hands up telling them to calm down, as I didn't want to make assumptions and give them the benefit of the doubt. 

As it happened we were approaching a stop as they came for me at the doors, I had nowhere to go and then clenched my fists angling my body so only one could approach at the time. Then one of the passengers tapped the larger black chap on the shoulder as he wanted to get off and then they noticed they were surrounded by other passengers and also got off. IN getting off one tried to headbut me as I cheek bone ached later.

I sat back down and a number of elderly black people approached one patting me on the back and another saying those kids gave Black people a bad name.

At the terminal I jogged to catch up with the kid who told me they wanted his old cracked phone. I said I could not believe he did not have bruises and he said the back of his head was really painful, he was not interested in going to the police. 

There you go.....the real world isn't leafy suburbia....reality is hard to accept if someone has never experienced what goes on...was really afraid for my life in Tangiers...my fault wrong place...same everywhere....never got into any trouble at games during the really bad days because knew where to be or not to be...Media is a disgusting social big s**t stirrer...

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1 hour ago, chara said:

.do you really think any person who is forbidden by law to buy a gun actually follows the system?..

Of course not.  But he is probably getting his gun via someone who is getting it legally.  And at a small margin over cost price.  Not like that in Europe.

1 hour ago, chara said:

don't confuse inner and not so inner city gun violence with the majority of law abiding citizens.

Trouble is that there is mass murder going on in US plus all those deaths from accidents and suicide. 

I appreciate Colorado may be an exception but there are less than 250 death by wild animals a year in US and "The animals most commonly responsible for human fatalities are farm animals, insects (hornets, wasps, and bees), and dogs".  In contrast 3163 children (u19) died from fire arms related injuries in 2016. 
Personally I find it really odd that international news should be interested in death by Mountain lion when toddlers (up to 3 years old) kill an average of 1 American a week with guns (sometimes themselves).

I get that it might seem "unfair" to punish some responsible gun users because of bad behaviour by others, but that is part and parcel of life.  From fireworks, to seats only and no bottles at football matches.  In 1989 I drove 4,000 miles in Oil shock US at a max speed of 55mph on open Highways without seeing anyone for 30 mins, and no American I met thought that was unreasonable.  None over took me either.  Yet at the time the outside lane of the M1 would have been cruising at 90 bumper to bumper.  Hell I was a safe driver - it was the other idiots that should have been stopped.

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chara   
10 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Of course not.  But he is probably getting his gun via someone who is getting it legally.  And at a small margin over cost price.  Not like that in Europe.

Trouble is that there is mass murder going on in US plus all those deaths from accidents and suicide. 

I appreciate Colorado may be an exception but there are less than 250 death by wild animals a year in US and "The animals most commonly responsible for human fatalities are farm animals, insects (hornets, wasps, and bees), and dogs".  In contrast 3163 children (u19) died from fire arms related injuries in 2016. 
Personally I find it really odd that international news should be interested in death by Mountain lion when toddlers (up to 3 years old) kill an average of 1 American a week with guns (sometimes themselves).

I get that it might seem "unfair" to punish some responsible gun users because of bad behaviour by others, but that is part and parcel of life.  From fireworks, to seats only and no bottles at football matches.  In 1989 I drove 4,000 miles in Oil shock US at a max speed of 55mph on open Highways without seeing anyone for 30 mins, and no American I met thought that was unreasonable.  None over took me either.  Yet at the time the outside lane of the M1 would have been cruising at 90 bumper to bumper.  Hell I was a safe driver - it was the other idiots that should have been stopped.

Usual considered response Droy...thank you....a discussion that can go on for a long time....get your point about other idiots...my add is that I believe deer are responsible for most deaths here by "animal"...(and I know of moose threats and elk attacks so my insurance policy will stay accessible!).I hit one and was lucky..I knew a music teacher who hit a deer and is in a wheelchair for life. 

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9 minutes ago, chara said:

Usual considered response Droy...thank you....a discussion that can go on for a long time....get your point about other idiots...my add is that I believe deer are responsible for most deaths here by "animal"...(and I know of moose threats and elk attacks so my insurance policy will stay accessible!).I hit one and was lucky..I knew a music teacher who hit a deer and is in a wheelchair for life. 

Yeah  I know the advice in Finland if you see an elk on the road is to drive straight into the nearest tree - because while a tree might have slightly stronger stopping power than an elk, they tend not to roll in through the front windscreen on impact.

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