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chara   
5 hours ago, Sciatika said:

I suspect a combination of a range of different factors. Not a political point, but it usually is. I would cite a failure to understand the mechanisms of the immune system, especially the importance of T-Cells. Prof. Karl Sikora, an oncologist, has been making this point since last April. It is interesting to note that none of the members of SAGE are immunologists, which is odd.  The failings of PCR-Testing has been well documented now (Henegan, Cummings, Yeldon, Craig) but it is a key plank of SAGE and government strategy. SAGE promotes it and all parties want to be seen to be "driven by the science". One problem government don't seem to get is that science is not a dogmatic set of proven rules, but a public square for discussion. Different scientists have different, but honestly held opinions. Politicians, in such circumstances, tend to be small-c conservative and reactionary, because they seek to protect their positions. They defer to what they perceive to be expertise. Moreover, much of the policy seeks to protect the economy over personal freedoms. This produces very strange and, seemingly, contradictory sets of rules (such as meeting in pubs but not in houses, opening stadia but banning a visit to gran'). Keeping pubs and stadia open helps the economy unlike meeting gran. This is not helped by the influence of social media on policy-making. It has two effects. It creates highly vocal and partisan groups who are unable to discuss these issues in a rational way. The debate becomes polarised. It promotes ideas and comparisons which have no basis in science at all. This mix of partially informed people is politically incendiary. This is not helped by the failure of government advisors in taking a holistic view of the measures they propose. Maajid Nawaz and others have been pointing out the last one for weeks. We will have to have an inquiry when it is all over, and we will probably discover that everyone genuinely did what they thought was the right thing at the time

Thank you for such a well presented view.

Strangely enough..or perhaps not.....I was stuck in the middle of Kansas with an old, somewhat pedantic, friend who regaled me with pretty much the same conclusions albeit USA focused.

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chara   
11 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Not gloating..always a sad thing....but sorry...will not join in any tribute or read them....."The Hand of God" issue ....not the handball..it was the reveling in having cheated a goal in plain view of the World and celebrating the way of it.The other goal in the game was amazing and worth remembering..not the tawdry effort remembered.

A gifted player among the very best but a poor role model and no credit to the game as an ambassador.

See from Pele to Bobby Charlton and many in between and after.

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Chrisb   
38 minutes ago, chara said:

Not gloating..always a sad thing....but sorry...will not join in any tribute or read them....."The Hand of God" issue ....not the handball..it was the reveling in having cheated a goal in plain view of the World and celebrating the way of it.The other goal in the game was amazing and worth remembering..not the tawdry effort remembered.

A gifted player among the very best but a poor role model and no credit to the game as an ambassador.

See from Pele to Bobby Charlton and many in between and after.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. Put much more eloquently than I would have managed where that bloke is concerned.

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JaneB   
11 minutes ago, Chrisb said:

Agree wholeheartedly with this. Put much more eloquently than I would have managed where that bloke is concerned.

Me too.

But I always remember Franco saying he was the best player he had ever played with.  Praise indeed from the great man.

Two more different characters you couldn’t find either.

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Chrisb   
2 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Me too.

But I always remember Franco saying he was the best player he had ever played with.  Praise indeed from the great man.

Two more different characters you couldn’t find either.

Quite Jane. One an absolute gentleman on and off the pitch and the other....well I won’t put what I think as you’d probably end up banning me.

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JaneB   
23 minutes ago, Chrisb said:

Quite Jane. One an absolute gentleman on and off the pitch and the other....well I won’t put what I think as you’d probably end up banning me.

I doubt that would ever happen!!

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chara   
1 hour ago, JaneB said:

Me too.

But I always remember Franco saying he was the best player he had ever played with.  Praise indeed from the great man.

Two more different characters you couldn’t find either.

Thank you Jane and Chris...after posting I thought maybe I should have just left it but did and do feel strongly about it.

The game..for me anyway..is more than the skill levels.

I do not dispute the status as a player but cannot accept the cheating as a plaudit. No shame in the act and no character as a person in the sport as time went on.

It has been my experience that in many many cases players I have played with have shown their true character on the pitch..the cowards,the brave. the heroes .the workers.the lazy and the true sportsmen so often seen in the context of the game.

Franco was/is a gentleman and so well respected by us....the other one?

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49 minutes ago, chara said:

I do not dispute the status as a player but cannot accept the cheating as a plaudit. No shame in the act and no character as a person in the sport as time went on.

All players cheat, in fact something like handling the ball on the goal line I would applaud.  (Yesterday the defender on the line punched Giroud's header but not hard enough - no one said a word or suggested he be yellow or red carded).  

It is what refs are there for.  If they don't spot that - they should take the blame.  

And what Maradona did in his personal life is really his problem, not ours - and he did only live to 60.

It is deliberate fouling that disgraces players.  Suarez or Saunders.  Not Maradona.

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chara   
17 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

All players cheat, in fact something like handling the ball on the goal line I would applaud.  (Yesterday the defender on the line punched Giroud's header but not hard enough - no one said a word or suggested he be yellow or red carded).  

It is what refs are there for.  If they don't spot that - they should take the blame.  

And what Maradona did in his personal life is really his problem, not ours - and he did only live to 60.

It is deliberate fouling that disgraces players.  Suarez or Saunders.  Not Maradona.

Sorry Droy..you are deliberately misunderstanding and thats not worthy of you even in a making a counter argument....it wasn't the cheating..I'm not so Roy of The Rovers that I don't know that..it was the glorying in it that sickened me.I gave credit for the other goal in the game in question and his skill but milking the handball? 

Again..you are just plain wrong about "really his problem"....agree it's not OUR problem but surely in the game some level of moral compass should be displayed by senior players. We all I think looked up to our heroes as kids and Maradona was not one I would use as any role model for a youngster...the skill set is not enough in the wider picture.

Deliberate fouling?..of course you are right but the incident in yesterdays game you use as an example of no call for card is fatuous and totally irrelevant.

I still condemn Barnes and Hunt among others but the incident in question will never ever be acceptable to me...I recall an equally talented player scoring a goal with his hand for France,,,,the after game response was far different from Maradona's.

 

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