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2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

We don't clap for the NHS any more. Doesn't mean we aren't grateful for the work those doctors and nurses did / do.

The NHS is no longer unambiguously good anymore though.  Ask anyone trying to visit their GP.  I'm not knocking NHS workers, but the story is cloudy now.

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Ham   

Alonso hasn't taken the knee once this season.  Have people only just noticed?

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9 hours ago, Ham said:

Alonso hasn't taken the knee once this season.  Have people only just noticed?

Watch everyone say we’re “racist” now. 🙄🧨

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Sciatika   
13 hours ago, Ham said:

Alonso hasn't taken the knee once this season.  Have people only just noticed?

I hadn't.  Mainly it's because I haven't been to a home game this season, yet. The TV tends to focus on the centre circle at that time. I don't tend to watch the players much before it starts anyway.

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paulw66   
16 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

The NHS is no longer unambiguously good anymore though.  Ask anyone trying to visit their GP.  I'm not knocking NHS workers, but the story is cloudy now.

But it was when the clapping gesture stopped, which was my point

IT didn't mean people were no longer grateful, it just meant that it ran its course.

What is "funny" is that all these footballers who are taking the knee to support inequality (in terms of race) will happily jog on and play at the Qatar WC where it is illegal to be gay, and where an estimated 6500 (at last count) slaves have died constructing the stadia. They have an opportunity to make a proper stand and boycott, but they prefer to virtue signal on the pitch and take the knee, which ultimately achieves..........nothing. 

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35 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

But it was when the clapping gesture stopped, which was my point

I think many had put 2 and 2 together by then, but I accept your point, most hadn't.

37 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

where an estimated 6500 (at last count) slaves have died constructing the stadia.

Steady - huge amounts go into black PR from that region, and a lot of it is directed upon each other.  Very little that is claimed can be verified.
Last time I checked, the big numbers were true about Qatar construction as a whole, but not Sports Stadia alone.
(I'm certainly not defending Qatar here, or the decision to hold WC22 there in 2023 in the middle of our challenge to retain the Prem and do the CL triple.

Should you and I have to take more care about who we quote on Qatar than the national newspapers do?  Unfortunately yes.

42 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

What is "funny" is that all these footballers who are taking the knee to support inequality

Plenty more ludicrous than that nowadays.

 

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Holymoly   
On 21/09/2021 at 6:45 PM, Droy was my hero said:

The NHS is no longer unambiguously good anymore though.  Ask anyone trying to visit their GP.  I'm not knocking NHS workers, but the story is cloudy now.

The NHS is a fantastic institution, staffed by fabulous people, but managed by the most inept individuals imagineable. The amount of wastage, both financially and in material is frightening. Of course it's not on to be seen criticising it is it? And before you go biting my head off, both my sister and brother in law are doctors, my wife is a senior nursing sister and I play cricket with the CEO of the local NHS Trust.

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7 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

The NHS is a fantastic institution, staffed by fabulous people, but managed by the most inept individuals imagineable. The amount of wastage, both financially and in material is frightening. Of course it's not on to be seen criticising it is it? And before you go biting my head off, both my sister and brother in law are doctors, my wife is a senior nursing sister and I play cricket with the CEO of the local NHS Trust.

Oh I wholly agree.  The staff are fabulous people.  My sister is a senior nursing sister.   It seems to me that the NHS was about to fall apart before Covid and used Covid as a way of covering up the collapse.
In terms of finance - it does produce fantastic value for money.  Sorry - that should be did.  The US spends twice as much with lower outcomes.
But it doesn't do that now, and the cost to lives is going to be great.  And that means things like cancer taking 20-30 years off lives, and not Covid taking months.
 

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chara   
7 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Oh I wholly agree.  The staff are fabulous people.  My sister is a senior nursing sister.   It seems to me that the NHS was about to fall apart before Covid and used Covid as a way of covering up the collapse.
In terms of finance - it does produce fantastic value for money.  Sorry - that should be did.  The US spends twice as much with lower outcomes.
But it doesn't do that now, and the cost to lives is going to be great.  And that means things like cancer taking 20-30 years off lives, and not Covid taking months.
 

Getting off subject somewhat but from afar agree re NHS staff but the obvious mismanagement and waste.

A short while back I had a BCCC diagnosed on a routine check up.....Sample taken on the Thursday....diagnosed nasty on the Friday...specialist Wednesday...gone the following Tuesday.....$80 copay in total.....the difference?....competition to oversimplify....the misunderstandings here of the NHS..and the system here in UK......"It's not free" as explained to yanks....and if you make sensible insurance choices here the coverage is first class.....this is not an argument for either system...just pointing out that "business" aims tend to ensure efficiency in administration.

 

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3 hours ago, chara said:

Getting off subject somewhat but from afar agree re NHS staff but the obvious mismanagement and waste.

A short while back I had a BCCC diagnosed on a routine check up.....Sample taken on the Thursday....diagnosed nasty on the Friday...specialist Wednesday...gone the following Tuesday.....$80 copay in total.....the difference?....competition to oversimplify....the misunderstandings here of the NHS..and the system here in UK......"It's not free" as explained to yanks....and if you make sensible insurance choices here the coverage is first class.....this is not an argument for either system...just pointing out that "business" aims tend to ensure efficiency in administration.

 

The US system cost pre vivid as I recall 8% of GDP paid by government plus another 10% paid by Users or mostly their insurance.   And as you know there are still large numbers of people unable to use it.  If the 10% was was given via the tax man then the US could offer heath to all. And Government spending would be so much higher that the US would be called a socialist country.

The UK system costs 9% total and other European countries spend 1, or ,2% more.  And until last year everyone had access.

I have never heard anyone claim the US system is efficient before. 

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