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8 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Times article almost word for word the same.  

This is taken as an admission by Moyes that it was pre-agreed.  It clearly isn't - he is only saying that Jordan Pickford agreed to kick the ball out when Costa asked him.

Full marks to Bob Singleton for predicting it - hope he had a tenner on it.

Isn't it? It seems to be an admission from Moyes that Sunderland were asked to collude in the "ceremony" and willingly complied. Fair enough, I agree with Ian Wright, amongst others, who, when Shearer in particular was saying he didn't like it, spoke up and said he didn't see anything wrong with it because the game was a dead one, given that we had already won the league and Sunderland were already relegated. Absolutely and fair enough, I didn't see any great harm in it myself either.

That, however, was before I became aware that people were able to bet on it. Unfortunately that does cause a problem, just like bets on the first throw-in used to. I had understood that betting on those sort of spot-fixing incidents had been outlawed, but apparently not. That is unfortunate then. I don't think for one minute that JT or anyone else had a bet on it of course, but it seems that some people certainly did and that might be against the law, I dunno. Anyway, it seems to me that it should be the bookies who would be liable if it was, because it was them who offered the market. I certainly don't see any culpability for JT.

The only other remaining factor is the assertion in the media that JT requested the whole episode himself. This depends on what exactly he is supposed to have requested. If, as seems likely, he put across the idea to Conte that he should be subbed in the 26th minute, to tie in with his shirt number, then again I don't see why anyone should have a problem with that. If however he suggested that there should be an agreement that on the 26th minute he should be subbed and then his teammates should form a guard of honour and carry him off the field like a hero? Well, you can see why people, particularly any with an anti-JT bias, are going to jump on that and cite it as an ego trip. After all, to actually suggest yourself that your teammates should form a guard of honour for you? Wouldn't that be better left to them to come up with the idea, on their own initiative? Can you imagine yourself suggesting something like it to your workmates?

At any rate, JT, who's had his share of run-ins with the media of course, might have been more media savvy and thought about the potential backlash of such a ceremony. That's if he did actually suggest it all himself of course. If he didn't. If he only suggested that he should be withdrawn on minute 26 and then the players themselves were the initiators of the guard of honour, then I stress I don't see anything wrong with it all. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Not by the police - by a court.  But yes that does seem to be what riles Crooks.  Does anyone care what he thinks though?

Not really but he is given a platform by the BBC where he sulks and says his things that the uneducated follow on and that allows him to constantly push the black agenda. His team of the week used to pick JT but begrudgingly and with the coveat that he played ok but was still a bad person

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42 minutes ago, PeteRobbo said:

Isn't it? It seems to be an admission from Moyes that Sunderland were asked to collude in the "ceremony" and willingly complied.

If you take out context and cue and paste the quotes to measure, they can seem to admit anything.

It is an admission that on 25m30 odd secs, when Costa was seen to approach the keeper, Pickford, that Pickford agreed to the idea.  It doesn't preclude the whole team being in on it, but it certainly isn't that kind of admission.  Indeed I wonder, given the certainty that several papers have about the idea, why there is only one quote on the matter, and the wording is precisely the same in every source. 

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18 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

If you take out context and cue and paste the quotes to measure, they can seem to admit anything.

It is an admission that on 25m30 odd secs, when Costa was seen to approach the keeper, Pickford, that Pickford agreed to the idea.  It doesn't preclude the whole team being in on it, but it certainly isn't that kind of admission.  Indeed I wonder, given the certainty that several papers have about the idea, why there is only one quote on the matter, and the wording is precisely the same in every source. 

I don't think the extent of the collusion really matters. Like I said, agreeing to a halt in the game to allow Terry to be subbed is OK for me in a dead game, but I hadn't been aware of the betting angle I have to admit and that is unfortunate. The key thing that the hostile elements of the media seem to be jumping on is that JT suggested the whole thing himself and that is "typical JT" etc etc.

It's not clear to me if those elements of the media are claiming that he merely suggested the substitution on 26 minutes, in which case so what, or whether he also suggested that he be given a guard of honour and/or carried from the field, in which case they, (the media), would be bound to say it was a sign of the ego of the man and all that.

In fact, of course, there was a precedent for it anyway, with respect to Didier. I feel that is the most likely background to what happened. That JT remembered how Didier ended his career with Chelsea and thought it would be a nice way for him to go as well, that's all.

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Forget about the Media in all it's forms...everything was about us. Not the media...who cares what they think (oxymoron of sorts?)

JT is OUR hero and deserved everything that WE the fans and the club tried to show him..and a class farewell speech to boot.

Chelsea Chelsea is OUR name!!!!

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I'm absolutely amazed anything has been made of it, it's a nothing situation that occurred in a nothing game.

How many managers have predetermined times when they are going to bring on particular players if the game is already won? How many times has a player been bought on at a particular time after coming back from injury? How many players come on in the last couple of minutes to waste time? All predetermined substitutions, it's happened thousands of times, week in week out in every league in the world.

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45 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

I'm absolutely amazed anything has been made of it, it's a nothing situation that occurred in a nothing game.

How many managers have predetermined times when they are going to bring on particular players if the game is already won? How many times has a player been bought on at a particular time after coming back from injury? How many players come on in the last couple of minutes to waste time? All predetermined substitutions, it's happened thousands of times, week in week out in every league in the world.

Yes, but they're all in the context of the game, not to orchestrate a guard of honour. That would be the differential they're citing.

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47 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

I'm absolutely amazed anything has been made of it, it's a nothing situation that occurred in a nothing game.

How many managers have predetermined times when they are going to bring on particular players if the game is already won? How many times has a player been bought on at a particular time after coming back from injury? How many players come on in the last couple of minutes to waste time? All predetermined substitutions, it's happened thousands of times, week in week out in every league in the world.

Are you? It's JT. People were always going to go mad, whatever he did. 

When Drogba got carried off (that was cringe worthy) 2 years ago, nobody said a thing. 

It really is a case of "nothing to see here". It was a dead rubber game, and the Chelsea fans wanted a send off like that, much like JT did. **** everyone else if they didn't like it. We did. He did. 

KTBFFH

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