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3 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

Who scored.

Slightly more than Hazard, loads more than Willian and Pedro.

If it is the case that he played more than them if you include all minutes from all games then there's only only person to blame. It undoubtedly didn't help in that run of 21 games that we took the league cup so seriously and failed to beat Norwich twice and had to go to extra time to beat Leicester in the FA cup. Perhaps if the manager managed the squad better in those 5 games or we tried to play football against teams like Norwich or we didn't line up with 7 defenders and no striker, at home to Bournemouth the run wouldn't have been so bad? 

I agree with you that our squad was too small, although no smaller than the teams we were competing with, but I don't think It was the main reason we went on a run that was so bad it should have cost the manager his job. I also put the blame 100% on Conte that our squad is so unbalanced with nowhere near enough attacking players and far too many defenders.

So Who scored lists FAC and LC starts, but counts minutes for only Europe and PL.  Since we played a lot of Cup and LC games, I'm pretty sure Hazard is well ahead of most of your list, and Willian and Pedro are a lot closer.
Also by definition you are taking the 2 AMS that played most for those teams.  But that is 2 out of 5 (or more for City).  Had any of them has any fitness or injury problems, someone else would have taken up the slack.  Willian was clearly out of sorts for about 2 months (October to December - ironically a good spell for us).  Hazard missed a bunch of games because of injury.  

Simply a collapse because of lack of fit players, AMs in particular, was not just predictable in hindsight.  It was predicted by many many people before the season began (or at least by Sept 1st).  When one predicts X because of Y, and X happens almost exactly in the order of games one predicts, and Y remains true thoughout, then it seems pretty sane to stick to ones guns, rather than invent new reasons.

(To be fair, this is an exact repeat of 15/16 - widespread predictions of not having enough players, followed by widespread finger pointing at different issues when it all turned out as predicted).

 

13 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I think I judge him or rate him in the following way. 

Certainly I think we should be revising down his achievements in his first year.  But we did have a lot more players then.  He was able to lay the law down by making an example of JT, Ivanovic and Oscar (all initial starters) while replacing them with players of similar ability (except Ivanovic/Moses which turned out to be a big drop off) and with Kante still having more than enough quality to stroll  the league.  

 

16 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

and 30 points behind winner

It was still 70 points - hardly coming off the rails JM style in a very very similar situation.  For me I think he knew very well  that the horse was never going to win, and the best he could do is to bring it back safely.
Still think Conte did a better job in 17/18 than 16/17 given the players he had.  It is the Conte as Football Director, buying players out of Italy and leaving the squad bare for much of the season that needs to be sacked.

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3 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

I think I judge him or rate him in the following way. 

You can polish that turd as hard as you like but even an FA doesn't make Conte shiny to me anymore.

So what in your opinion is the  minimum for the next coach in his first season?

PL?

FA CUP?

league cup?

europa cup?

top 4?

 

 

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17 minutes ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

So what in your opinion is the  minimum for the next coach in his first season?

PL?

FA CUP?

league cup?

europa cup?

top 4?

 

 

Well I don't know who we will buy, who will leave or who our direct competitors will buy, and I don't know who the coach will be. I'm not even sure who the owner will be or if he will be allowed into the country, so an expectation of the season is a bit tricky. But if Conte is the coach and Roman is the owner and we strengthen in the right places (decent CF for a start) , I think I would hope for the same as everyone else...top 4 or win Europa league.  

Is that too high a hope in your opinion? 

 

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3 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

(except Ivanovic/Moses which turned out to be a big drop off)

You jest...tell me you jest.

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41 minutes ago, Ham said:

Don't expect to hear about this on Sky Sports New or the BBC;

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/19/football/world-cup-russia-roman-Abramovich-spt-intl/index.html

 

It is delicate stuff to put out when other papers (well one or two quietly) are reporting on all the other sick and wounded from the same region, many of them children too. 

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Ham   
36 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I was pretty annoyed by this smug Guardian article; I'm still waiting for the F.A. to respond to my numerous complaints about homophobic chants at Stamford Bridge.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/18/puto-chants-mexico-football-world-cup

I don't think they've yet made the"rent boys" connection. I wonder how long it would take for the FA to get involved of Chelsea fans started singing it about Liverpool fans. 

Exactly the same insult as the Mexicans are being criticised for, just a different language.

Edited by Ham

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On 6/8/2018 at 8:38 PM, Martin1905 said:

Yet Salah, Mane, Sterling, Sane, Eriksen and Ali all played more minutes than any of our attacking players.

Quite. 

PL minutes 2017/18:

Salah 2 921

Mané 2 206

Sterling 2 592

Silva 2 435

Sané 2 422

Eriksen 3 226

Alli 2 970 

Son 2 309

For us, Hazard (2 432), Willian (1 883) and Pedro (1 523). 

This says all you need to know about Conte. That he has "saved" our AMs by not playing them is far-fetched imo. He used a very defensive 532 or a fairly defensive 523. It was a rare sight to see Fabregas, Hazard, Willian and Morata starting in the same game. For City, Tottenham and Liverpool it was not a rare sight to see their best players start together; 

Liverpool: Salah, Firmino, Mané are all among the top 5 most used Liverpool players

Tottenham: Eriksen, Kane and Alli among their top 5 used players - all at 3 000 mins or more. 

Man C: Sterling, Silva, Sané all over 2 400 PL minutes. De Bruyne over 3 000 mins. 

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paulw66   
1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

I was pretty annoyed by this smug Guardian article; I'm still waiting for the F.A. to respond to my numerous complaints about homophobic chants at Stamford Bridge.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/18/puto-chants-mexico-football-world-cup

 

25 minutes ago, Ham said:

I don't think they've yet made the"rent boys" connection. I wonder how long it would take for the FA to get involved of Chelsea fans started singing it about Liverpool fans. 

Exactly the same insult as the Mexicans are being criticised for, just a different language.

I have logged complaints about the Chelsea Rent Boys chant on the "Kick it Out" website, as one is encouraged to do. I have heard nothing back. 

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