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knuckle dragging morons with no defense whatsoever, do nothing for this club now or 40 years ago.  Just flush them out and make sure they never come back.  There is literally no defense for their actions or mindset in football or society.

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41 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

eGood spot, but I'll hold my hands up and say I'm not sure I'm following exactly. Could you say more? 

Will accept there is possibly a less incriminating context I've missed... But it's still Nazi insignia. I'll admit also the rest of the flag ("no surrender") and my personal experience of that particular stream of Chelsea fans means I'm less inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. 

There is a nation with a common border with Hungary where genuine nazis (often following a historical Nazi root from grand parents) have a major role in the government.  Not only several Nazi symbols are present, at one point the main party was called the Socialist Nationalists.  Ministers are members of fascist parties.  There are annual Jan 1st parades with flags and burning torches in honour of historic Nazis including those responsible of killing several hundred thousand Jews, and a lot of Poles too.

This is more than well established, but fits no ones agenda to print.  Kind of like Yemen which till the last few months rarely hit the headlines, although there was no actual secret about what had been happened over the same time period..  

Image search the picture and you'll see none of the standard media has touched this story of the President or anything like it over the past 4 years because they have been fed with an alternative version of history.

I'm not defending the "Chelsea" fans.  In fact it may well be that some of them are connected with mercenaries that work for  Oligarchs and some direct for the government of that country, and some of this group may well be Ukrainian.  It would explain why they made the trek without tickets.

My point is that when the agenda is to back a certain president in the media, and he stands next to Nazi insignia bearing soldiers (not for the first time, and quite a few international dignitaries have done the same there) then the media will not comment.  A Chelsea fan though, and the agenda is different.
One has to be very careful distinguishing between the news one reads and the agendas that filter it.

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Ham   
17 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

There is a nation with a common border with Hungary where genuine nazis (often following a historical Nazi root from grand parents) have a major role in the government.  Not only several Nazi symbols are present, at one point the main party was called the Socialist Nationalists.  Ministers are members of fascist parties.  There are annual Jan 1st parades with flags and burning torches in honour of historic Nazis including those responsible of killing several hundred thousand Jews, and a lot of Poles too.

This is more than well established, but fits no ones agenda to print.  Kind of like Yemen which till the last few months rarely hit the headlines, although there was no actual secret about what had been happened over the same time period..  

Image search the picture and you'll see none of the standard media has touched this story of the President or anything like it over the past 4 years because they have been fed with an alternative version of history.

I'm not defending the "Chelsea" fans.  In fact it may well be that some of them are connected with mercenaries that work for  Oligarchs and some direct for the government of that country, and some of this group may well be Ukrainian.  It would explain why they made the trek without tickets.

My point is that when the agenda is to back a certain president in the media, and he stands next to Nazi insignia bearing soldiers (not for the first time, and quite a few international dignitaries have done the same there) then the media will not comment.  A Chelsea fan though, and the agenda is different.
One has to be very careful distinguishing between the news one reads and the agendas that filter it.

Or.... This is just a bunch of fat old headhunters holding a flag bearing one of the many skull emblems they've used for decades. 

A horse, not a zebra. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Ham said:

Or.... This is just a bunch of fat old headhunters holding a flag bearing one of the many skull emblems they've used for decades. 

A horse, not a zebra. 

 

In which case the zebra is the President of a large European country standing next to an  ex-Chelsea Head hunter  :)

But it does remain interesting that if you are a famous billionaire President widely backed because of a recent provocation against a country the media like to criticise, then being a fat old Chelsea fan is of no interest to anyone.  I guess he supports Liverpool (but definitely not Spurs).

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17 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

In which case the zebra is the President of a large European country standing next to an  ex-Chelsea Head hunter  :)

But it does remain interesting that if you are a famous billionaire President widely backed because of a recent provocation against a country the media like to criticise, then being a fat old Chelsea fan is of no interest to anyone.  I guess he supports Liverpool (but definitely not Spurs).

Just because Petro Poroshenko is a nasty piece of work doesn't suddenly make Putin an angel! 😉 It's a bit like the Assad/ISIS conundrum... who's the 'good guy' in that conflict?

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Ham   
17 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

In which case the zebra is the President of a large European country standing next to an  ex-Chelsea Head hunter  :)

But it does remain interesting that if you are a famous billionaire President widely backed because of a recent provocation against a country the media like to criticise, then being a fat old Chelsea fan is of no interest to anyone.  I guess he supports Liverpool (but definitely not Spurs).

Are you talking about the image with the flag or the other one? I'm struggling to find one that hasn't been pixelated. 

 

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13 hours ago, Zidane said:

Jordan Peterson is a hell of a drug. Are you also big on that whole 'all lives matter' talking point? 

Jordan Peterson? He was pretty late to the party. Like two decades late.

'All lives matter'? Not sure where you are going with that, but if it is in the literal sense then yes of course - all lives matter. 

11 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

As The_Ghost has bowed out, I'll respond. It's essentially the idea (or conspiracy theory if you're uncharitable, which in fairness I very much am when it comes to cultural Marxism) that there is a movement or plot to destabilise Western capitalism through (broadly) leftist politics. It has recently found a home in, among other places, the American alt-right, Jordan Peterson's books and Anders Brevik's 'manifesto'... 

It is not a conspiracy theory. It is alive and kicking, notably in the UK, Sweden but really all over the western hemisphere. Maybe there are morons who think it's a conspiracy, I'm not one of them. It is essentially the new ideology in the west and it's deeply rooted. My perspective has nothing to do with capitalism but rather how we have to section cultures in a hierachy where the highest culture can't critisice any other culture. Essentially you can only kick upwards and never critisice any culture that's believed to be inferior (by this insane doctrine). 

I'm following the polical arena all over the world and have been following the Swedish general election closely. Why? Because it's the most extreme example of teh phenomenon in the world today. If you haven't, I'd urge you to read up on it. A real eye-opener. 

To even bring up Breivik is tasteless to the extreme. Well done. If you knew how hurtful that is to Scandinavians you'd probably would have bitten your tongue on that one. I'd also think that Jordan Peterson would have a few things to say about you bundling him together with the Alt-Riht and an unsympathetic mass murderer with clear psychological and moral deficiencies.  

11 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Would strongly disagree with every single word of what you said, but with you on saying as much and bailing out of it as a discussion on a Chelsea FC media thread. Just a few too many steps removed from the original discussion point. 

That's a shame. Personally I see humans. Not power structures, ethnic origin, sex, sexual orientation etc. Legislation can't be written for one group only. It must be written for the whole population.

The amnesty for the Afhgans in Sweden a great example. Not all refugees. Not all immigrants. Just the Afghans. The legilsation was a disaster from start to finish, was slaughtered by the legal council but not heeded by the politicians. Now these poor Afghans are homeless in the Swedish winter, no housing, and are recruited (actually forced) by drug dealers to sell their drugs and taken advanteged of by a old homosexuals who pay them with housing for exchange of sexual favours. 

A very inhumane end to a "good" cause. All because we can't see humans and instead must section everyone into groups who are in constant struggle with each other. For me that's madness and a recipe for polarization. Which of course is rife in Europe at the moment. Maybe that's a conspiracy as well?

But to tie it back to the point of discussion. You can't lambast Chelsea fans for singing the Y-word when it is a clear reference to Spurs fans while giving the Spurs fans a free pass for using the same word. That much should be bleeding obvious. It's not even remotely like the African Americans who use the N-word. Because they actually lived through the pain of the real meaning of the word. Spurs fans have not. They don't own it in that way. 

 

10 hours ago, synavm said:

I think it's just a term that bigots use in place of 'being respectful to people'.

Wow. I'll just leave this comment hanging here. Shameful! You don't know me, who I am or where I'm from. You don't even know my ethnical background. Yet I'm a bigot? 

 

This is why I wanted to bow out, knowing full well that people can't help themselves being absolute tools. 

Edited by The_Ghost

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22 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Just because Petro Poroshenko is a nasty piece of work doesn't suddenly make Putin an angel! 😉 It's a bit like the Assad/ISIS conundrum... who's the 'good guy' in that conflict?

Welcome back.  Well we know about Assad - we have been told for years about how Assad has been using CW against his people and dropping barrel bombs against them.  And when the good guys have been giving ISIS weapons it was barely mentioned and the guy that said it in public is under arrest still, and we know that the US is in Syria to attack all terrorism, while the Kurds it employs are actually protecting them from that nasty Assad.  And we don't know that ISIS used CW against a Syrian town last month because it wasn't reported. much like the unreported wild celebrations everytime Assad's troops regain a town from rebels.    Meanwhile nobody talks about the Saudi, Israeli and Turkish role in all of this.  So yes, very much like Poroshenko and Putin.  We know what we are told but don't believe it, and it is very hard work to find out more.

No you are avoiding the point, which is simply the Guardian will have a go at Chelsea fans because it wants to.  It will cover up for Poroshenko, because it is told to.

22 minutes ago, Ham said:

Are you talking about the image with the flag or the other one? I'm struggling to find one that hasn't been pixelated. 

The SS Totenkopf symbol.  ON the flag (twice) and on the chest of the soldier 2 from the president.  What do you mean pixelated?  
 

Edited by Droy was my hero

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synavm   
19 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

Wow. I'll just leave this comment hanging here. Shameful! You don't know me, who I am or where I'm from. You don't even know my ethnical background. Yet I'm a bigot? 

Where did I call you specifically a bigot? I said the term 'cultural Marxism' is usually used by bigots without a first clue of what they're talking about, usually parroting some Libertarian or alt-right personality.

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25 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

To even bring up Breivik is tasteless to the extreme. Well done... 

But to tie it back to the point of discussion. You can't lambast Chelsea fans for singing the Y-word when it is a clear reference to Spurs fans while giving the Spurs fans a free pass for using the same word. That much should be bleeding obvious... 

This is why I wanted to bow out, knowing full well that people can't help themselves being absolute tools. 

Cut up of course, but genuinely just for brevity and not to misrepresent you. 

Someone asked what 'cultural Marxism'. I tried to answer, didn't hide that I also have an (strongly negative) opinion, and gave a few well known touchstones. That Breivik decried 'cultural Marxism' is not my invention. If that is uncomfortable for you or others with overlapping (even if only slightly) philosophical positions ... Frankly and with the greatest respect, reconciliation with that is not my problem. 

I'd happily make my points to Jordan Peterson for his response. 

I feel there is an attempt to shame me here for being 'hurtful', and consider that a little ironic, in the context. 

As for the bit that links back to the discussion... Literally no one here has given Tottenham a free pass. In fact, most of the discussion is between people thinking they need more criticism and people agreeing but thinking that's tangential. The whole point, from my perspective, is that everyone should stop using anti-semitic language, regardless of what they think their intention or its meaning is. Ultimately though, it is only our own house we can get in order. Refusing to get or house in order to make a point is pointless, worse pathetic. 

As for the last bit... I guess politics aren't allowed here for this very reason. A shame, IMO. Much more interesting than most of the other conversations here. 

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