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Jose Mourinho (Leaves For The Second Time)

11,691 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, Paul Mcgoochan said:

But surely, it's the same paper thin squad that improved under a different manager when Jose left??

Not the same - many more choices this season.  If you can't count, of if you think playing a lot of U21s was proof of a big squad, that is your issue.  I'm not here to teach people to count with their fingers.

But it is true - a lot of key players were equally good Under JM in 13/14 and 14/15 too.  Neither JM nor Conte explain 15/16.

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There were many reasons for last season's debacle. Squad depth was one but not as much as you keep banging on about Droy. If it was the main reason then it would have manifested itself in the second half of the season when regular players get fatigued, not straight from the off. Squad size does nothing to explain that. 

 

I await being told how to count on my fingers with relish.

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?? It was there 2nd half too - which is why we had a poor 2nd half and only really improved after players like Hazard had a good long rest and we were out of the CL.

JM's flat out determination to win the title even when we were clearly struggling made it a lot worse, but squad depth is the whole story.  Everything else is just speculation - and mostly speculation designed to prove various theories about JM or the players.  It really is that simple (and really was predicted at the start of the season by a number of people).

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2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

??  1:  It was there 2nd half too - which is why we had a poor 2nd half and only really improved after players like Hazard had a good long rest and we were out of the CL.

2:  JM's flat out determination to win the title even when we were clearly struggling made it a lot worse, but squad depth is the whole story.  Everything else is just speculation - and mostly speculation designed to prove various theories about JM or the players.  It really is that simple (and really was predicted at the start of the season by a number of people).

Point one. Do you read the posts you reply to ( how many times have we heard you utter those words) as I never said that it wasn't there second half did I. The point I was making, and one you failed to offer an opinion on, was that a thin squad should have had very little affect on the first half, nay, third of the season where fatigue should not have be an issue. 

Point two. "Everything else is just speculation"? Players coming back from pre-season unfit. Now I'm saying this as a supporter of the big man, but that was his responsibility as team coach/manager to make sure that his teams fitness was controlled. Not speculation, just his (well paid) job description. Yes, we all knew it was a thin squad and would catch us out but other problems destroyed the season before squad size had had a chance to get it's hands dirty. 

Please don't come back with "theories about JM" when people have a differing whew to your own as I do like the man but understand why the club let him go (not agree, understand). For what its worth, I like Conte a lot, I like his tactics (you don't, I understand, I've read all your posts) but, I think his squad management has been poor. e.g. With JT injured and Luiz carrying an obvious injury, I feel that Zouma would have been the better choice. But all managers make mistakes.

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34 minutes ago, Sea foot said:

Point one. Do you read the posts you reply to ( how many times have we heard you utter those words) as I never said that it wasn't there second half did I. The point I was making, and one you failed to offer an opinion on, was that a thin squad should have had very little affect on the first half, nay, third of the season where fatigue should not have be an issue. 

A squad of 20 might have lasted till Christmas.  We had in effect a  squad of 13 or 14 real choices.  They were clearly exhausted.  They were exhausted whichever half of the season you want to talk about.  

36 minutes ago, Sea foot said:

Point two. "Everything else is just speculation"? Players coming back from pre-season unfit. Now I'm saying this as a supporter of the big man, but that was his responsibility as team coach/manager to make sure that his teams fitness was controlled. Not speculation, just his (well paid) job description. Yes, we all knew it was a thin squad and would catch us out but other problems destroyed the season before squad size had had a chance to get it's hands dirty. 

That happens in football - you just drop the player and pick someone else.... (if you can).  The issue was the thin squad and coming up with reasons why the thin squad was such a damaging issue is not arguing against that.  I agree there were reasons why the thin squad was especially a problem last season.  Yes.

 

37 minutes ago, Sea foot said:

Please don't come back with "theories about JM" when people have a differing whew to your own as I do like the man but understand why the club let him go (not agree, understand). For what its worth, I like Conte a lot, I like his tactics (you don't, I understand, I've read all your posts) but, I think his squad management has been poor. e.g. With JT injured and Luiz carrying an obvious injury, I feel that Zouma would have been the better choice. But all managers make mistakes.

What are you trying to say here?  Nothing that I would particularly disagree with from what I see (apart from your comments on me).  For the record I entirely understand why the club let JM go too and have never argued against the club's decision.  And after the zero press disappeared post Arsenal/Liverpool, I pretty happy with Conte's tactics.  

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So the Eva episode had nothing to do with it? 

As has been said, you can't blame squad depth for a lack of early season form. 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ham said:

So the Eva episode had nothing to do with it? 

As has been said, you can't blame squad depth for a lack of early season form. 

 

 

 

Actually yes, one can blame squad depth for that. It was the same players who had been flogged the season before and on top of that the club went on a post-season tour to Asia/Australia(?) which JM clearly objected against. 

Then came summer and already end of May Jose said openly that everyone, from owner down to tea lady would have to improve and that we needed reinforcements. He was given Djilobodji and Hector and a last second panic buy in Pedro. Then pre-season came about and JM had decided he had to start later to let his players get a rest. The late start was a big mistake and probably his biggest mistake and for that he should be criticised but he did it for a good reason. 

Then we were off to yet another tour (America?) and travelled a lot back and forth. No continuity. The signings never came and Jose was clearly growing irritated. Costa had come back fat and the younger players seemed to think they were superstars and just strolled. 

Despite all of this, it took horrendous (absolutely horrendous) referee performances and team performances where we were battering teams without getting goals while our midfield and defence were giving away territory and goals like they were Father Christmas to sink us.  

It was a myriad of reasons that put us in the position we found ourselves. A perfect storm. The ones who lay all the blame on Jose clearly haven't understood the situation properly. Likewise the ones who only blame squad size. Squad size was only one of the many factors that played against us. 

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7 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Actually yes, one can blame squad depth for that. It was the same players who had been flogged the season before and on top of that the club went on a post-season tour to Asia/Australia(?) which JM clearly objected against. 

Then came summer and already end of May Jose said openly that everyone, from owner down to tea lady would have to improve and that we needed reinforcements. He was given Djilobodji and Hector and a last second panic buy in Pedro. Then pre-season came about and JM had decided he had to start later to let his players get a rest. The late start was a big mistake and probably his biggest mistake and for that he should be criticised but he did it for a good reason. 

Then we were off to yet another tour (America?) and travelled a lot back and forth. No continuity. The signings never came and Jose was clearly growing irritated. Costa had come back fat and the younger players seemed to think they were superstars and just strolled. 

Despite all of this, it took horrendous (absolutely horrendous) referee performances and team performances where we were battering teams without getting goals while our midfield and defence were giving away territory and goals like they were Father Christmas to sink us.  

It was a myriad of reasons that put us in the position we found ourselves. A perfect storm. The ones who lay all the blame on Jose clearly haven't understood the situation properly. Likewise the ones who only blame squad size. Squad size was only one of the many factors that played against us. 

COMPLETELY ignored what I said whilst at the same time absolving JM of any blame for players coming back unfit and youngsters not giving a sh1t.    

Edited by Ham

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5 hours ago, Ham said:

COMPLETELY ignored what I said whilst at the same time absolving JM of any blame for players coming back unfit and youngsters not giving a sh1t.    

What? I answered your claim that you can't blame squad depth for early season form. 

That's  literally what the post is about so can't see how you can think that I COMPLETELY ignored what you said. 

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4 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

What? I answered your claim that you can't blame squad depth for early season form. 

That's  literally what the post is about so can't see how you can think that I COMPLETELY ignored what you said. 

About his treatment of Eva affecting our form.  

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