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Jose Mourinho Sacked For The Second Time by Chelsea. Joins Manchester United. And now sacked by them too!

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Dave, I judge Mourinho's career in the long term and what he is doing in the short term as different debates and separate issues. Career as a whole = absolutely marvellous, the best we have ever had and one of the greatest across all football in my lifetime. Short-term football = he and us are in a right mess.

One does not exclude the other from being relevant and one does not govern the other as being right or wrong. His previous successes cannot mean he is exempt from criticism now just as this current mess cannot completely overshadow or undermine his trophy haul as a manager everywhere he has been to date. However, like a boxer that goes on too long and loses too many fights in the twilight of his career, JM's Chelsea legacy could be tarnished if he does not turn things around over the remainder of the season. He might go on to be remembered as the manager that guided us to several Premiership titles and also as the manager that was at the helm when we finished in the bottom half a dozen in a season where we were reigning champions.

I do think that his success as a manager has earned him the right to try and turn this season around, he deserves the whole of this season. I do not think that his successes will absolve him of blame should this season shape up to be as terrible as the start would suggest.

Two different things, two separate issues, long and short evaluations.

Now this I can agree with fully. I would however take it a step further and say I'd give Mourinho another 12 months or so. If results doesn't pick up while he's given money that's matching his competitors then he will rightfully get the sack. It is a results business and these results can't go on for ever without repercussions.

But in my book he has deserved a fair chance to turn it around.

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I agree with those who say, this is Mourinho's mess, just as his successes have been his. I can understand those who say let's give him time to sort things out. I would argue that he is not saying or doing anything that convinces me that he knows what is wrong, or what to do to get us out of this situation. So on that basis, waiting for him to sort things out is a fatal position for the club. What I cannot understand is that you cannot even accept that a good chunk of the mess at the club is created by Jose Mourinho.

This is a typical example: You argue that Jose didn't sign poorly, that he usually builds teams that goes on winning. But then you argue that the current team is considerably weaker than last season. Somehow you want to bring some coherence to your argument. So in come the board. They are responsible for all this bad signings that have left the team weaker. As for why Mourinho could not stop talking up Falcao all summer, that is the press to blame. And so we go on and on in circles.

Are you seriously suggesting that last summer was all according to Jose's wishes? Are you seriously suggesting Papy Djilobouti (or whatever his name is) is a Mourinho signing?

Did you see and hear what Mourinho said to the club, himself and his players towards the tail-end of last season? Do you think that fits well with what we see out on the pitch now and the players we have on our books?

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Are you seriously suggesting that last summer was all according to Jose's wishes? Are you seriously suggesting Papy Djilobouti (or whatever his name is) is a Mourinho signing?

Did you see and hear what Mourinho said to the club, himself and his players towards the tail-end of last season? Do you think that fits well with what we see out on the pitch now and the players we have on our books?

I think that this is true however where does the blame for putting all our eggs into the one John Stones shaped basket? Just asking - do you think that the board were stupid enough to think Everton would just cave in when the money offered hit X amount and that Jose was part of that incredible arrogance? I think that there is a little hand in handness here and Jose isn't completely blameless.

I agree Djilobouti and the Reading chap are not Jose's signings but more could have been done by everyone associated with transfers - including Mourinho - to prevent those signings happening at all. That's my take on it.

Edited by Hugh Jars 99

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If a young centre half was our only issue I'd agree but it clearly isn't. Our issues are just as much regarding creating chances/goals atr the other end

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It would serve you well to not exaggerate so much Bartlett. We have not been a mess for a year, not even close. We may have been a mess for the last four active months of football which of course is quite different to the melodramatic stuff you serve up above. Even that would be studied thing it. To be fair I think it is 2.5 months where your statement is true.

Every manager goes through a rough spell. It's not always all his fault and especially these days when there are a lot of people who actively determines a teams chances during a season. You don't wipe out 13 years achievement because of a rough 2-3 month spell in my opinion. That is being short-sighted and extremely unfair. Unless of course you just dislike the manager in question; in which case it would be a lot more honest to just say that instead of bending over backwards trying to serve up logical reasons where there is none.

Take Tubby. Hate him with a passion and did nothing to hide it. Have we had worse managers? Absolutely. That was my personal reason so try and be honest about yours. If we were talking about a manager who had been flapping about not winning is anything for two years and then served this up if agree with you. This would have been the final nail in the coffin. But we're not so excuse me for not taking yours and others comments too seriously.

Winning the league has blinded some supporters as to how badly we were playing. Up till November we were almost unstoppable to the point whereby bookies had paid out on us winning the league. From November it was more down than up and a grind, we played in the main quite poorly. The difference now is that we are not getting the 1-0 wins (or draws) the quality is down another margin but not that much.

Personally and just to be 100% clear I really couldn't give a stuff what JM won with others clubs. It's Chelsea I care about.

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I agree with your point about the narrow wins/draws for evidence look no further than the Palace game where we probably should have drawn in April (as ironically given the amount we should have had over the season) it wasn't a penalty. fast forward a few months and it was the same tight game but this time we didn't get the first goal and wernt in control of the game as a result. I went to Southampton at home last season and we drew but it was close perhaps you could argue we could have nicked a win but they caused us problems. This time they caused us more problems and won comfortably despite us going ahead. Ditto Liverpool though the previous encounter we were already in shut down mode and they were a poorer team than now. We again went ahead and the only way we were going to win was to hang on like grim death to 1-0 and they missed the multiple openings they were creating.

The difference being we aren't controlling games like we argueably were previously and its not a new idea but I think the damage is coming from midfield. Towards the end of last season I felt teams had sussed out the Matic/Fabregas axis wasn't the most mobile but were being caught between going all out to attack us and whether to try and defend our (at the time) reasonably potent goal threat through Hazards running and Willian/Oscars probing.

Now there's no potent goal threat or no consistently potent just a bit of pitter patter around the box followed by the breakdown of the move and teams are rightly thinking s*d this lets get at them and its working. We aren't just seeing them coming through the middle but also down the flanks and exploiting an overworked defence. Now I think Bergovic has performed magnificently since he's arrived but he's no Courtois and we are shipping even more goals than we might otherwise. We might have to wait for his return before we start to claw back some points in earnest unless Jose can find a solution further up the pitch. One such solution would be to sling some crosses in rather than try and keep possession in a line and try threading it through the eye of a needle.

Lets see, this can't last forever.

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Winning the league has blinded some supporters as to how badly we were playing. Up till November we were almost unstoppable to the point whereby bookies had paid out on us winning the league. From November it was more down than up and a grind, we played in the main quite poorly. The difference now is that we are not getting the 1-0 wins (or draws) the quality is down another margin but not that much.

Personally and just to be 100% clear I really couldn't give a stuff what JM won with others clubs. It's Chelsea I care about.

But still a far cry from your "total mess for a year now" quote wouldn't you agree?

We still won those games. In fact, we only lost three league games all season. Hardly 'a mess'.

I think that this is true however where does the blame for putting all our eggs into the one John Stones shaped basket? Just asking - do you think that the board were stupid enough to think Everton would just cave in when the money offered hit X amount and that Jose was part of that incredible arrogance? I think that there is a little hand in handness here and Jose isn't completely blameless.

I agree Djilobouti and the Reading chap are not Jose's signings but more could have been done by everyone associated with transfers - including Mourinho - to prevent those signings happening at all. That's my take on it.

This can be viewed from several angles actually. One the one hand, should we have gone for our 2nd, 3rd or even 4th options in the positions we looked to strengthen? Perhaps. But if the club has told José that the money he has to spend is severely restricted then one can understand why he doesn't want short-term emergency signings in the mould of salah and Cuadrado instead wanting and aiming for his preferred option. Either case, posters such as Blue Rod is ready to criticise which ever way he chose to go so he can't win with some.

This is far too a complex process for some to just lay the blame at Mourinho's doorstep without contemplating what concequences one decision will have on another, and a third, and a fourth etc.

That's why I maintain that there are many different factors that has played a part in this seasons slump. One thing that one could hold Mourinho responsible for is that he chose to sway from his normal pre-season preparations in order to make his small squad last longer. That seems to have been a very bad decision (short-term at least). But then again someone will say he was forced because the squad he has is so small.

All we know is that Mourinho took a side miles away from being champions and made them champions. He got money to spend and he got the targets he wanted. This season none of that is true.

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Some extremely good points above. Tottenham had success against us a few times in recent years by pressing us all over the park. I'm suprised last year more teams didn't persue this- instead more often than not they gave us a lot of respect and allowed us to knock it around a bit.

Now it seems the fear factors gone, and we get harassed when in possession most weeks.

I wish we would employ a higher tempo/ more movement style of play which puts opponents on the back foot, rather than the occasional crab like forray into the opposition half.

Trouble is hell will freeze over before Jose More-ego concedes he might be wrong, and adjusts his tactics to suit

Edited by Skinny Legs

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Why I think we're so bad:

Small senior squad

  • Fatigue - physical and mental - they've been run into the ground
  • Lack of competition for places

Lack of quality signings

  • You need to sign better players than the ones you have to continue evolving, we simply replaced those who left with worse or average players.

Lack of winning mentality

  • Fergie's teams knew how to win repeatedly, I think a lot of our players are mentally weak in that regard - happy with winning last year.

Needless conflict

  • We were bad before Jose started picking proper fights, but they've hardly helped.
  • Ordinarily I love him in our corner but the Eva thing has been spun predictably, no matter what really happened. It was naive to do this.

Bad pre-season

  • Whether it was a deliberate decision or not, our pre-season prepared us badly.
  • Could still have a hangover from Jose not getting what he wanted in the Summer (Stones etc.)

So how do we fix it? My votes:

  1. Sign a few big players in January. A proper statement. Money isn't an object for us at the moment so lets back Jose.
  2. Mix it up tactically. It's obviously not working at the moment so give the opposition something a bit different to think about.
  3. Wind your neck in a bit Jose.
  4. Give RLC, Kenedy and Traore a run.

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Blue Rod   
  1. Sign a few big players in January. A proper statement. Money isn't an object for us at the moment so lets back Jose.
  2. Mix it up tactically. It's obviously not working at the moment so give the opposition something a bit different to think about.
  3. Wind your neck in a bit Jose.
  4. Give RLC, Kenedy and Traore a run.

Not a lot to ask of Jose then.

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