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Jose Mourinho Sacked For The Second Time by Chelsea. Joins Manchester United.

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On 28 May 2017 at 4:07 AM, kennypaul said:

I'm glad you underlined if Nobly.To suggest that Chelsea fans prefer Mourinho to our club is not my intention however the vitriol the board received and subsequently Conte also after only a handful of games was stupid and insulting. If you look through this topic ,and not that far back I might add you will see that it has been implied by others. There will always be some that will pine away for Mourinho like the first time he was sacked, but when things go well for him and poorly for us some on here seem to revel in it. 

I'm sorry but this is absolute bs. There was ONE poster who was critical of Conte from the start. 

Virtually everyone else wanted and accepted that he should be given ample time to make his mark. 

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51 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I'm sorry but this is absolute bs. There was ONE poster who was critical of Conte from the start. 

Virtually everyone else wanted and accepted that he should be given ample time to make his mark. 

Even this is not true (though it has apparently gone into legend).  There was one poster who for a 3 or 4 game period thought the zero press and failure to sort it out was evidence of incompetence, and did not believe (given the constant talk of Conte having his Juve system which he would stick to) that Conte would turn it around.  And he backed off immediately when Conte did sort it out properly after the Arsenal game, and has not criticised him since, while praising him for being quick to change.

What you seem to be talking about is the poster (by coincidence the same one) who has said from day one we have a great set of players who deserve the lions share of praise for this season.  That is what upsets people, not his actual comments on Conte.

 

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12 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Even this is not true (though it has apparently gone into legend).  There was one poster who for a 3 or 4 game period thought the zero press and failure to sort it out was evidence of incompetence, and did not believe (given the constant talk of Conte having his Juve system which he would stick to) that Conte would turn it around.  And he backed off immediately when Conte did sort it out properly after the Arsenal game, and has not criticised him since, while praising him for being quick to change.

What you seem to be talking about is the poster (by coincidence the same one) who has said from day one we have a great set of players who deserve the lions share of praise for this season.  That is what upsets people, not his actual comments on Conte.

 

He's taking about you.

Nobbly expressed some worry at the beginning which is who you are talking about.

You on the other hand , didn't want him from the beginning gave him absolutely no credit throughout the thirteen game win streak (equalling the record) , turning yourself into a "standing in the wrong place" meme in the process , pontificating that managers make no difference whatsoever and then dancing the Mexican hat dance when Mourinho won the Europa league.

He's talking about you.

You were wrong about Conte , Voted manager of the year by his peers , from the off as he steered the club to the record of most wins in a season , in his very first year in English football , whilst the glamour boys , Guardiola , Mourinho , Klopp and Pochettino floundered in his wake.

You were wrong when he identified Alonso as a wing back and wrong when he converted Moses too.

He's talking about you.

Still , every cloud , Mourinho won the treble.

 

Edited by Mark Kelly

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56 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

You on the other hand , didn't want him from the beginning gave him absolutely no credit throughout the thirteen game win streak (equalling the record) , turning yourself into a "standing in the wrong place" meme in the process , pontificating that managers make no difference whatsoever and then dancing the Mexican hat dance when Mourinho won the Europa league.

He's talking about you.

You were wrong about Conte , Voted manager of the year by his peers , from the off as he steered the club to the record of most wins in a season , in his very first year in English football , whilst the glamour boys , Guardiola , Mourinho , Klopp and Pochettino floundered in his wake.

You were wrong when he identified Alonso as a wing back and wrong when he converted Moses too.

He's talking about you.

Still , every cloud , Mourinho won the treble.

 

Delusional.

Seriously you actually believe your own posts about me, and don't read mine at all.

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11 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Delusional.

 

You certainly are.

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If I may jump in here. My concern after sacking JM was "who are we going to get?". These concerns were shared by many posters as we have not always chosen wisely in the past. Once Conte was hired I was actually pretty excited. Watching him at the World Cup with Italy I made comments here that I couldn't wait for him to start. I loved his commitment and his personality.

Once he did start I was worried about the formation we were using which meant the continual inclusion of Ivanovic at RB. More than anything this player seemed to be a weak link in our chain. I was expecting a 3 at the back from the start but didn't get it. Moreover although we were winning games we seemed shaky and disjointed. We got Luiz and Alonso at some point so what were we waiting for? Apparently we were waiting for the disaster of Liverpool and Arsenal where Conte said enough is enough. I will mention here that the criticism of Conte after these games came from all quarters. Anti Mourinho posters such as Blue Rod were laying into Conte with the best of them.

My only strong criticism ever of Conte was that he should of made that tactical switch sooner because it became clear after the switch how well it worked. Had we lost valuable ground in the race for fourth place or even the title by persisting with a back four including Ivanovic? Who was to know at that point that we would go on such an incredible run of winning games...not one of us could have predicted how brilliantly the switch would work. I was elated that it did and fortunately other teams faltered while we climbed the league.  

I'm fully behind Conte and wouldn't never want JM back in his place, although I will defend JM against what I see as unnecessary bile and ingratitude. 

I have no idea where that put's me in the eyes of other posters or what sticker they want to place on me. I'm Chelsea first everything else second. 

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2 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

If I may jump in here. My concern after sacking JM was "who are we going to get?". These concerns were shared by many posters as we have not always chosen wisely in the past. Once Conte was hired I was actually pretty excited. Watching him at the World Cup with Italy I made comments here that I couldn't wait for him to start. I loved his commitment and his personality.

Once he did start I was worried about the formation we were using which meant the continual inclusion of Ivanovic at RB. More than anything this player seemed to be a weak link in our chain. I was expecting a 3 at the back from the start but didn't get it. Moreover although we were winning games we seemed shaky and disjointed. We got Luiz and Alonso at some point so what were we waiting for? Apparently we were waiting for the disaster of Liverpool and Arsenal where Conte said enough is enough. I will mention here that the criticism of Conte after these games came from all quarters. Anti Mourinho posters such as Blue Rod were laying into Conte with the best of them.

My only strong criticism ever of Conte was that he should of made that tactical switch sooner because it became clear after the switch how well it worked. Had we lost valuable ground in the race for fourth place or even the title by persisting with a back four including Ivanovic? Who was to know at that point that we would go on such an incredible run of winning games...not one of us could have predicted how brilliantly the switch would work. I was elated that it did and fortunately other teams faltered while we climbed the league.  

I'm fully behind Conte and wouldn't never want JM back in his place, although I will defend JM against what I see as unnecessary bile and ingratitude. 

I have no idea where that put's me in the eyes of other posters or what sticker they want to place on me. I'm Chelsea first everything else second. 

Well said my man. You said it all and basically there is no need for further comment. 

Now if some of the individuals on here would get this, we'd all be a happy family. 

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12 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

If I may jump in here. My concern after sacking JM was "who are we going to get?". These concerns were shared by many posters as we have not always chosen wisely in the past. Once Conte was hired I was actually pretty excited. Watching him at the World Cup with Italy I made comments here that I couldn't wait for him to start. I loved his commitment and his personality.

Once he did start I was worried about the formation we were using which meant the continual inclusion of Ivanovic at RB. More than anything this player seemed to be a weak link in our chain. I was expecting a 3 at the back from the start but didn't get it. Moreover although we were winning games we seemed shaky and disjointed. We got Luiz and Alonso at some point so what were we waiting for? Apparently we were waiting for the disaster of Liverpool and Arsenal where Conte said enough is enough. I will mention here that the criticism of Conte after these games came from all quarters. Anti Mourinho posters such as Blue Rod were laying into Conte with the best of them.

My only strong criticism ever of Conte was that he should of made that tactical switch sooner because it became clear after the switch how well it worked. Had we lost valuable ground in the race for fourth place or even the title by persisting with a back four including Ivanovic? Who was to know at that point that we would go on such an incredible run of winning games...not one of us could have predicted how brilliantly the switch would work. I was elated that it did and fortunately other teams faltered while we climbed the league.  

I'm fully behind Conte and wouldn't never want JM back in his place, although I will defend JM against what I see as unnecessary bile and ingratitude. 

I have no idea where that put's me in the eyes of other posters or what sticker they want to place on me. I'm Chelsea first everything else second. 

We were never going to go 3 at the back from the start. Anyone that's followed Conte knew his preferred formation is indeed the 424 he utilised successfully at Bari and Siena. Just as he did at Juventus, he looked to utilise it here from the beginning, particularly in pre-season, before changing to 352/343 after the Arsenal game. Doing this also allowed him to assess some of our players who did poorly last season and see how they would a) respond, and b) be worth keeping around. The other upside to this was it allowed both Conte and the players more time to be tactically trained and brought up to speed, given how intensely tactical Conte's system can be. 

Also worth noting that Alonso's first league game was coming off the bench in the Arsenal fixture, while Luiz's was the previous game against Liverpool. Alonso hadn't played much at all prior to that with essentially a month between his last game for Fiorentina and his first game in the League Cup for us against Leicester. Another reason why 342 wasn't viable from the beginning.

Just so happened that Arsenal game was the end of the straw. Chances were given, certain individuals continued to underperform and the change was made. The rest as they say is history. 

I had no doubts about Conte's ability, I'd seen it all before with Juventus and what he done. I think those who had reservations were the ones who likely seen little of him as a manager beyond his exploits at the Euro's and the couple games he had against us with Juventus a number of years ago. I think had he been a more reputable manager (outside of Italy), there would have been less concerns. That unknown factor I sense worried a section of fans.

 

 

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3 hours ago, zaffo said:

We were never going to go 3 at the back from the start. Anyone that's followed Conte knew his preferred formation is indeed the 424 he utilised successfully at Bari and Siena. Just as he did at Juventus, he looked to utilise it here from the beginning, particularly in pre-season, before changing to 352/343 after the Arsenal game. Doing this also allowed him to assess some of our players who did poorly last season and see how they would a) respond, and b) be worth keeping around. The other upside to this was it allowed both Conte and the players more time to be tactically trained and brought up to speed, given how intensely tactical Conte's system can be. 

Also worth noting that Alonso's first league game was coming off the bench in the Arsenal fixture, while Luiz's was the previous game against Liverpool. Alonso hadn't played much at all prior to that with essentially a month between his last game for Fiorentina and his first game in the League Cup for us against Leicester. Another reason why 342 wasn't viable from the beginning.

Just so happened that Arsenal game was the end of the straw. Chances were given, certain individuals continued to underperform and the change was made. The rest as they say is history. 

I had no doubts about Conte's ability, I'd seen it all before with Juventus and what he done. I think those who had reservations were the ones who likely seen little of him as a manager beyond his exploits at the Euro's and the couple games he had against us with Juventus a number of years ago. I think had he been a more reputable manager (outside of Italy), there would have been less concerns. That unknown factor I sense worried a section of fans.

 

 

The point of my post wasn't really to hash over old arguments about whether his change to a back three could have been done sooner....I think we've had that argument many times before. The point was to indicate when I'd been supportive of Conte and when I hadn't because my name had been brought up in relation to that. I am also pretty sick and tired of some posters (not you) who think that if you have been appreciative of Mourinho's football achievements at this club, you have no right be appreciative of what Conte is doing. The accusation being that you would revel and enjoy Conte failing and then dance in the street should Mourinho win the title. This is insulting, ignorant and inflammatory and the reason why this thread has so often degenerated into a slanging match. Whilst I agree that he can be annoying to us when managing another team, we rather liked it when he was on our side annoying the opposition fans (well I did anyway). And sections of our crowd telling him to "feck off" when he visits here is hardly going to stop him having a sly dig at us when he can squeeze one in...it's a self for-filling prophesy we are creating.

However you have managed to drag me into the old formation argument, so I will say this. Your tactical knowledge of the game far exceeds mine which is why I always read your posts with interest and try to absorb certain points you make. You also have a good knowledge of Conte and Italian football  which most on here don't. But I feel I am on pretty solid ground here and feel you are overly protecting Conte from criticism. I don't think the timing of the switch was all part of a timed master plan. 

Conte should and could have made the switch sooner. Maybe not the first few games of the season while we were finding our feet but certainly sooner than he did. He has admitted that he worked on the new system in close season (without Alonso and Luiz). So whether he was a 4-2-4 merchant at Juve or not this system was in his thoughts. Ivanovic was stinking out the joint at RB and was only very marginally better than the disaster he was the season before, yet here he was week in week out. Even before the Liverpool and Arsenal games many of us were predicting the wheels were about to come off. I think it was Dave that even suggested Moses as WB before it even happened. 

I can't tell you Zaffo the exact point he should have changed it because I can't remember exactly how each of those early games went, or when Luiz and Alonso were fit and ready. The only thing I can say with 100% certainty is that he should and could have done it before the Arsenal game. I say this because he didn't make the switch after that game (as you said) but during it. Are you telling me that the system wasn't quite ready before the Arsenal game but it was suddenly fit for purpose at half time? It wasn't just the lost points- losing to Liverpool and Arsenal in such a manor was incredibly painful and you will never ever convince me that the results and the performance wouldn't have improved if he had implemented the system changes before those games. 

I said at the time that if we lose the title or fourth place by 2 points we will regret those two games. As it happened it was irrelevant (although painful at the time). Conte does deserve fantastic credit for what happened after this point. He is a brilliant manager in my mind (but not infallible). I would also put Mourinho in that category. We have been blessed.   

Edited by NoblyBobly

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