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Jose Mourinho Sacked For The Second Time by Chelsea. Joins Manchester United.

11,943 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, zaffo said:

Say if he dropped Ivanovic who'd then have played RB, Aina? And if you're going to use the reasoning that Conte could have looked back on the previous season etc then surely it would just about apply to every player besides Willian? No one played well. A few were equally as questionable with their future as Ivanovic was. Can't apply the rule to one without the other. Hence why it's only fair (and logical) for a new manager to start with a clean slate and assess what he has to work with personally, which is exactly what Conte did. The difference being that he had the foresight to make the change once he knew it wasn't going to work long term. Fact of the matter is he made do with the best of what he had. At least until he was able to bring in Luiz and Alonso, which essentially gave him the ability to switch to 343 at any point, an option he didn't previously have. Something that he didn't waste time doing, given the timing of when both players became available for selection.

This pre-season was largely based around fitness and getting clued up tactically. No surprise's when the player themselves have spoken about how much both areas were focused on - particularly the heavy demand in being tactically assure when it comes to execution. Trying to change a teams shape while implementing an entirely different tactical system was always going to take time. Trying to do it all at once would have been an absolute train wreck because of the stark difference between Conte's approach, and that which majority of our players had been accustomed too under previous management. I'm sure at one point Conte had ambitions to play 343/352 eventually, gradual change rather than complete upheaval was a more sensible choice.

Nobly, if you honestly believe any of those back three combinations had a hope in hell at being successful, you're incredibly optimistic. Makes me cringe just reading them on paper, let alone having to witness it on the pitch (thankfully that never happened). Even if you did go with one of those line up's, we'd still have had problems elsewhere because its pulled players from other positions that were already thin as it was - and that's not even addressing the WB situations. I think you're clutching at straws with that one, sorry to say. 

Did you miss the part where I said Alonso wasn't fit? Because you're creating a situation that wasn't feasible for logical reasons, despite I having previously explained why this couldn't have happened and why he was unavailable. There was a 3 week gap between his last game for Fiorentina and then his first (League Cup) game with us. He played 90 minutes that game and then we had Arsenal 4 days later. There was no way he was ever going to play both.

14 games? Only 6 were deemed important though. Again, I think you're underestimating the situation No point playing any system when the players on hand aren't able to accommodate it because of a lack of viable depth. You wouldn't play 3 upfront if you only had 1 striker on the books, or 442 if you had no wingers. Just as you wouldn't play 343 without enough (or the right type of) CB's or any WB options (Moses aside, since he was later converted). 

I'll try and answer these in order:

1) Quite frankly anyone.... but Dave is the obvious answer.....believe it or not he is actually at RB. We then have the issue of who do we play at left back. I'll come to that later.

2) Exactly. Getting clued up tactically is about trying new systems with what personnel you have in games that are not crucially important. Why not try Ake as the anchor of a back three in pre season for 45 mins? He might find something interesting about the player. Are you suggesting Ake has no future at this club? He's tried the player since in the back three and he has much potential in my eyes.

3) Optimistic? maybe - but delusional  ... I hope not. Better than a RB at LB and an aging CB with no legs at RB. That's what made me cringe. Liverpool and Arsenal games made to cringe AND cry. Not a hope in hell you say... based on what experience? If Luiz had sustained an injury mid season who would be your anchor? No one? Conte must have had a plan B so why not try it pre season or in a cup game.

4) I didn't miss it. He must have been very close to full fitness or he wouldn't have played 90 mins in that cup game. He had been with us since transfer deadline day (Aug 31st). I assume he had been in summer training somewhere but I have no details of that. This was a £23 million player who looked far fitter and match ready than Ivanovic yet he warmed the bench for best part of a month. Ake was another potential left back and I would probably have kept Kennedy for cover. 

5) Yes 14 ...I counted them.  I would put it to you that ALL these games were important to a new manager. Vital in fact when assessing players and formations. Obvs the PL was our big target so they are the ones to take fewer chances but he had opportunities. Your argument is that he had no opportunities and I'm just not buying that.

 

I don't want to labour the point but there were quite a few voices screaming for a formation change after the Pool game (and even before). Whether the players were available /fit/ clued up with system is not entirely clear... I'll give you that. I don't think that your voice was one of them calling for change or at the very least saying "the change will come when players are ready". Is this what's griping you? 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

So what vitriol did Conte receive is my question? 

The answer is none (apart from one poster and maybe two more who were critical in a worried way). 

I feel posts like this are wide off the mark. 

To this poster Dave I would say "put up or shut up". Show me the posts...the vitriol against Conte (he got some stick after Arsenal game from ALL quarters but never vitriol) , the revelling when things go badly for Conte and well for Mourinho. Apparently these comments are not far back so I'd like to see them and join in the condemnation. Just make-believe to enforce a terrible point. A lie in fact.

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12 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

To this poster Dave I would say "put up or shut up". Show me the posts...the vitriol against Conte (he got some stick after Arsenal game from ALL quarters but never vitriol) , the revelling when things go badly for Conte and well for Mourinho. Apparently these comments are not far back so I'd like to see them and join in the condemnation. Just make-believe to enforce a terrible point. A lie in fact.

You can't praise a player nowadays without being accused of being on a witch hunt against Conte.

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