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Harvz

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Nicely summed up.

Cahill, JT and Zouma, with Ivanovic if / when required means spending big on a CB is daft when a CM could do so much more for the squad.

I wouldn't rule out Koke coming here when the Luis deal is finalised.

I could understand it if this was in two years time and finding the future CB pairing was a tad more urgent.

I suppose a future Azpi-Zouma-Stones-Baba Rahman back four has some interesting potential. If the two CBs develop as everyone seem to expect of course.

Can't say I've seen that Baba fella but by description he seems to have potential.

Edit: some good and interesting points made by both Newstyke and Curtis. On reflection I kind of agree with you both.

Then there's always that risk of waiting with Stones, see United pick him up and then really do become the next dominant English CB. Or us picking him up in two years time for £60m...

Edited by Sleeping Dave

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I could understand it if this was in two years time and finding the future CB pairing was a tad more urgent.

I suppose a future Azpi-Zouma-Stones-Baba Rahman back four has some interesting potential. If the two CBs develop as everyone seem to expect of course.

Can't say I've seen that Baba fella but by description he seems to have potential.

Edit: some good and interesting points made by both Newstyke and Curtis. On reflection I kind of agree with you both.

Then there's always that risk of waiting with Stones, see United pick him up and then really do become the next dominant English CB. Or us picking him up in two years time for £60m...

Yeah definitely Dave. They all have to develop accordingly, but a lot of potential there for a solid, long-term defensive line.

I think our move for Luis was a particularly bad one if it's true that we had a chance at Luke Shaw, as I do think United are set up for the next decade there. Young, English talent is prime because United, Chelsea, City are the top of the league that they've grown up watching. A lot of European players may see Barca and Real as the pinnacle, but it has been confirmed Shaw at least that he grew up a Chelsea fan.

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Newstyle   

Then there's always that risk of waiting with Stones, see United pick him up and then really do become the next dominant English CB. Or us picking him up in two years time for £60m...

Precisely. I posted a few weeks back out of the "top 5" EPL clubs only us and City had fewer than 4 senior CB's in the squad. With United looking for experience and Arsenal and Liverpool not in the market for a CB this is a great opportunity for us to land one of the most exciting young defenders in England without getting involved in a bidding war.

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Newstyle   

Yeah definitely Dave. They all have to develop accordingly, but a lot of potential there for a solid, long-term defensive line.

I think our move for Luis was a particularly bad one if it's true that we had a chance at Luke Shaw, as I do think United are set up for the next decade there. Young, English talent is prime because United, Chelsea, City are the top of the league that they've grown up watching. A lot of European players may see Barca and Real as the pinnacle, but it has been confirmed Shaw at least that he grew up a Chelsea fan.

I also think it should be stressed that while a £30m+ figure is quite clearly extortionate for a player of Stones' current ability, paying that much for a 21 year old amortised over 10+ years actually works out at much better value for money under FFP than the £16m we payed for a 29 year old Felipe Luis. (As long as Stones doesn't ask for crazy wages).

In relation to Shaw, I think Jose was quoted as the wages he was asking for was the major stumbling block. Here's the quote:

"“If we pay to a 19-year-old boy what we were being asked for, to sign Luke Shaw, we are dead,” he said. “We would have killed our stability with financial fair play and killed the stability in our dressing room.

“Because when you pay that much to a 19-year-old kid – a good player, fantastic player – but when you pay that amount of money, the next day, we would have had players knocking on our door."
Otherwise (again, while extortionate) paying £27m for a 19 year old wouldn't have been horrendous value for money when ammortised over 10+ years under FFP.
While the club are seemingly accepting the market is inflated for young, English talent in our enquiries for Shaw last year and Stones this - I am glad we didn't pay Shaw the wages he was asking for as the last thing we want to do is inflate our club's wage structure.
The club has also done remarkably well in securing Azpi, Ivanovic and Cahill all for under £10m and more recently Zouma for just over that figure. It may now be time to bite the bullet and pay a big figure for a player. I also think that paying that figure this season rather than next or the season after when Terry potentially is in much more need for replacing will reduce the psychological burden for whoever that player is. By signing him now he gets to learn from Terry and play instead of Terry in a few games - thereby making his replacing far more transitional and natural. The burden will also be shared with Zouma which should help reduce the spotlight.

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I also think it should be stressed that while a £30m+ figure is quite clearly extortionate for a player of Stones' current ability, paying that much for a 21 year old amortised over 10+ years actually works out at much better value for money under FFP than the £16m we payed for a 29 year old Felipe Luis. (As long as Stones doesn't ask for crazy wages).

In relation to Shaw, I think Jose was quoted as the wages he was asking for was the major stumbling block. Here's the quote:

"“If we pay to a 19-year-old boy what we were being asked for, to sign Luke Shaw, we are dead,” he said. “We would have killed our stability with financial fair play and killed the stability in our dressing room.

“Because when you pay that much to a 19-year-old kid – a good player, fantastic player – but when you pay that amount of money, the next day, we would have had players knocking on our door."
Otherwise (again, while extortionate) paying £27m for a 19 year old wouldn't have been horrendous value for money when ammortised over 10+ years under FFP.
While the club are seemingly accepting the market is inflated for young, English talent in our enquiries for Shaw last year and Stones this - I am glad we didn't pay Shaw the wages he was asking for as the last thing we want to do is inflate our club's wage structure.
The club has also done remarkably well in securing Azpi, Ivanovic and Cahill all for under £10m and more recently Zouma for just over that figure. It may now be time to bite the bullet and pay a big figure for a player. I also think that paying that figure this season rather than next or the season after when Terry potentially is in much more need for replacing will reduce the psychological burden for whoever that player is. By signing him now he gets to learn from Terry and play instead of Terry in a few games - thereby making his replacing far more transitional and natural. The burden will also be shared with Zouma which should help reduce the spotlight.

I had heard rumblings about the matter with Shaw before today, but hadn't seen direct quotes from Jose. Fully agree with him there, as it may upset a few stalwarts... Particularly with the likes of SFL and Terry speaking up several times over the last few years about how they had to clean the senior players boots and carry their bags for them. A youth player coming in at the age of 19, having proven very little and being on equivalent/higher salary... that's just drama we don't need.

Good points well made, I definitely think Stones playing alongside Terry and Cahill will help acclimatize him to life at the top, and enable him to learn off of two of England's finest centre backs. Two pretty contrasting styles as well.

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Khobar   

Hasn't Shaw been overweight and unfit since joining Utd?

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Newstyle - you certainly present some interesting and well argued arguments.

It will be interesting to see how this all ends up.

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Ham   

KDB running the show at the Emirates. All over the pitch. I wonder whether he's sending a message to JM or City.

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Scooba   

KDB running the show at the Emirates. All over the pitch. I wonder whether he's sending a message to JM or City.

In a friendly. I doubt Jose will be losing much sleep over a players performance in a friendly.

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