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Transfer Talk Topic

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3 hours ago, kev61 said:

Lukaku scores goals when Everton are on the up,Costa scores goa!s when we up against it - that is the true quality of a centre forward.

So given that Costa is getting a lot of goals this season and Lukaku even more, if I look at the table will  find Chelsea struggling and Everton flying high above us?

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16 hours ago, paulw66 said:

?

I don't follow that. Ronaldo was entering his peak when he was sold in 2009, aged 24 and had won everything there was to win at United. Hazard, albeit 2 years older, is in a very similar position, apart from no CL medal. The player he is now.??.....he isn't better now, aged 32. 

Current best and most valuable PL player - tick, tick. The situations are remarkably similar and like it or not, if Real flex their muscle and Hazard wants to go, I fail to see us being able to do anything other than negotiate the best deal we can. 

For avoidance of doubt, I hope we do all we can to keep him, and I am in no way advocating his sale. I am also not convinced the stories have any substance other than it is an obvious link to conjur up. Ronaldo is 32 and needs replacing soon. Who out there is available who could do that........

Yes, the Ronaldo comparison is a relevant one, however, he actively agitated for a move, which I'm not sure Hazard will do.

Additionally, if we remember, Fergie refused to let him leave, literally forcing him against his will to stay another year. I'm not saying we'll do that, but sometimes the player doesn't always get his way.

As for Ronaldo needing replacing, whilst I agree, he did just sign an extension in November 2016, tying him down to 2021. He's not going anywhere for a while yet.

 

15 hours ago, jones said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/28/chelsea-arsenal-alexis-sanchez-no1-summer-transfer-target?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Interesting set of players being mentioned with us. Conte's leverage in the negotiations over a new deal. Alaba and Sanchez would go straight into the starting XI and leave Alonso and Pedro on the bench. Exactly the kind of players we should be looking at. Costa will be very hard to replace, so hopefully we can give him a new mega deal so that we can calm the nerves of us supporters. Morata and Lukaku, even if both were to arrive, does not feel like an upgrade.

Yes, interesting, but not sure how much truth there is to any of this. We can crave Sanchez as much as we want but I just don't see Arsenal selling to us. 

Alaba, too, is vital to Bayern and contracted to 2021. Don't see Bayern letting him go. 

But yes, these are the sort of players we should be targeting. 

 

13 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

SKY absolutely willing it to happen , too anti Chelsea to realise that if players like Hazard leaves their brand is weakened.

Indeed.

 

8 hours ago, zaffo said:

Have you seen the goals Lukaku scores? He's scored some equally important goals and won matches off his own back too. Don't think anyone can really discredit the worth of his goals in comparison to Costa. Both have scored important ones for their respective clubs. In saying that, Costa has been absolute rubbish for us in Europe. 

For me, quite simply, Lukaku is a natural goalscorer. He's inherently a very good finisher. His movement is very good (he's always looking to find space and gesturing to where he wants the ball), he's strong, and almost impossible to stop once he gets going. He'll score goals wherever he goes and at 23 has plenty of years ahead of him.

Seeing as he wants out, and has a connection to us, I think we should be all over this deal.  

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3 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

So given that Costa is getting a lot of goals this season and Lukaku even more, if I look at the table will  find Chelsea struggling and Everton flying high above us?

Think you missed the point. Lukaku does plunder a lot of goals in games that Everton win comfortably which boosts his numbers. Costa scores consistently and when we need it most, which is why we are flying high.

To explain the point, Costa has scored in more matches than Lukaku, albeit has less hat tricks and doubles. 

On a different topic, I don't buy the argument that Lukaku will automatically score more goals by playing in a better team. As pointed out previously, how many teams play for a draw against Everton, compared to approx 2/3 (possibly more) of our league games. 

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2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Think you missed the point. Lukaku does plunder a lot of goals in games that Everton win comfortably which boosts his numbers. Costa scores consistently and when we need it most, which is why we are flying high.

To explain the point, Costa has scored in more matches than Lukaku, albeit has less hat tricks and doubles. 

On a different topic, I don't buy the argument that Lukaku will automatically score more goals by playing in a better team. As pointed out previously, how many teams play for a draw against Everton, compared to approx 2/3 (possibly more) of our league games. 

I still don't understand though.  Everton have scored less than us.  Looking at the table it would be pretty hard for them to score against most of the top 6.  Yet Lukaku has scored more than Costa in a team that scores less than Chelsea.  You're pushing an argument a very long way if you think that makes Costa a better goalscorer.

(Better contributor to the team perhaps - I'd go with that).

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21 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I still don't understand though.  Everton have scored less than us.  Looking at the table it would be pretty hard for them to score against most of the top 6.  Yet Lukaku has scored more than Costa in a team that scores less than Chelsea.  You're pushing an argument a very long way if you think that makes Costa a better goalscorer.

(Better contributor to the team perhaps - I'd go with that).

Ok, agree with the last bit, but an example of what I am talking about.... Lukaku scored the 3rd and 4th goals in a 4-0 home win versus Hull last week. Those goals are really nothing more than window dressing, but boost his numbers.  

Costa's contribution this season, particularly earlier on:

Winners in close games versus WH, Watford, Palace, WBA, Boro, WH (again), 2 in the draw with Swansea, equaliser at Man City, opening goals home to Hull and Leicester 

A striker who regularly scores winners / important goals is in my opinion a better goalscorer than one who bags lots when the team is thrashing their opponent. I don't have Lukaku's stats to hand but I would hazard a guess his goals for Everton (albeit more of them) haven't directly contributed to as many points as Costa's 

By the way, I am a fan of Lukaku but I can understand those who question that because he has scored more than Costa that makes him a better goalscorer or indeed the right fit for our team. 

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1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

Ok, agree with the last bit, but an example of what I am talking about.... Lukaku scored the 3rd and 4th goals in a 4-0 home win versus Hull last week. Those goals are really nothing more than window dressing, but boost his numbers.  

Costa's contribution this season, particularly earlier on:

Winners in close games versus WH, Watford, Palace, WBA, Boro, WH (again), 2 in the draw with Swansea, equaliser at Man City, opening goals home to Hull and Leicester 

A striker who regularly scores winners / important goals is in my opinion a better goalscorer than one who bags lots when the team is thrashing their opponent. I don't have Lukaku's stats to hand but I would hazard a guess his goals for Everton (albeit more of them) haven't directly contributed to as many points as Costa's 

By the way, I am a fan of Lukaku but I can understand those who question that because he has scored more than Costa that makes him a better goalscorer or indeed the right fit for our team. 

I agree with this. I am also of the opinion that Lukaku does not really fit here regardless of his stats. I say this as he is at his best when he has lots of space to run into, hence why he scores fewer opening goals and more goals after Everton are in the lead (as the other team come out); at Chelsea he will not get this as teams sit deep even when one down. Addittionally, a lot of Costa's key skills that greatly benefit the team but not his stats - his hold up play and his selfless running - are not qualities Lukaku has to a suitable level. Therefore, on a personal level I see Lukaku as a very good striker but a bad fit for us in a 343 or its variations. For me we should only go near him if we are planning on moving to a front 2. However, even then I would still see him as a downgrade on Costa (if he does go) as his game is not as rounded. 

For me, our best case suutation this summer would be to sign Costa to a new contract and get Morata as a replacement to Bats, as he is able to play as a 2nd CF just off of Costa and has a game more suited to working as a part of a front 3 rather than as the tip of a front three. Furthermore, he will likely cost around 50-60% of Lukaku which means more funds for elsewhere. 

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Lukaku is 23 and  has played over 350 games already,  has a ratio of roughly a goal every other game and is 100% proven in the premier league. He's only going to get better and I don't buy the argument that he would score less goals here as teams sit back agaisnt us and he needs space in behind to score goals. If that was the case then it would actually be a good thing as we do tend to play deep and look to exploit space in behind. It's not though, although he is very good when playing on the counter, most of his goals are scored inside the box after attacking pressure from Everton. He also gets a lot of goals from set pieces and crosses, something that we lack. 

Does anyone actually watch him and Everton or do people just assume thats the case? I suggest people look at his goals over the last 2 years before answering that as you may be suprised to know that very few of his goals have come because teams are pushing further forward than they would against us and he has loads of space in behind.

Saying he is at his bestwhen he had space to run into not only makes him actually quite suitable for us but it is also not true at all, although if enough people say it enough times maybe it will be.

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It might be wortn watching his goals from the last two seasons. I'm failing to see how anyone can come to the conclusion he needs space in behind to score goals. He's very, very good when he does get in behind but there is a lot more to his game than that.

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Posted (edited)

For once, this discussion is actually full of good arguments from both sides. Doesn't happen to often on this forum ;) The diplomatic thing to say is that Lukaku's stats are very impressive, but that nobody really knows for sure how well he would fare for us. I remember I thought Sutton and Torres were great signings, and where underwhelmed by Drogba and Carvalho (when they signed). 

Lukaku is much more than a player who can attack into space, and I would say he is better than Costa at positioning in the six yard box when crosses are coming from the byline. But do not underestimate how it is leading the line for Chelsea. Mentally, it is draining. You will have the referee against you - no doubt both Costa, Torres and Drogba had that - and the opposition's defence will use that to their advantage. 

I would never be happy replacing Costa with Lukaku. But if Costa were to leave, what better options do we have? Realistically, Aubameyang and Lewandowski won't be available. Other than that, I can't see many better CF at the moment.

Edited by jones

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