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paulw66   
38 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Sorry, thought we were top of the heap, which is why we got given that trophy.

Edit - and Sunderland were top. What does that tell you? 

Edited by paulw66

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6 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

But top of the only table that mattered last season.

I understand some, not saying you, are annoyed and upset by the way we handle our youth players but the fact of the matter is we are the second most successful club in the premier league era and the most successful since Roman bought us.

During the first few years we blew everyone out of the water with the amount of money Roman was spending. Over the last few years we have found a way to carry on that success without being as reliant on our owners wealth. We have bought in a lot of young players and made a very good profit on some. This has allowed us to win the league two out of the last three seasons with a very small net spend in terms of the success we have had.

With the current transfer market being so crazy we find ourselves in the position that our strategy is only going to make us more money. Money that is generally reinvented into the first team. 

This policy is proving to be very fruitful and during a time when the owner is funding a new stadium build almost by himself we continue to compete at the very top.

I'm sure we would all love players like Ake, Chalobah, Christensen etc to make it here but at ehat cost? Would people br happy if the club went in a different direction and started putting a bigger emphasis on promoting youth team players if it meant not competing at the highest level? What happens if we take this approach and these players aren't as good as some of us think and we find ourselves outside the top 4 for a few years? Would people be happy with that or would everyone kick off that we haven't invested properly in the first team?

The reality is that we may not play as many young players as others but no other team gets anywhere near us when it comes to buying and selling players whilst maintaining success. It's clearly a strategy the club has come up with and one we pull off very well. If we continue this way and maintain our success it's very hard to criticise the club for doing so.

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44 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

It's just a shame if one of them were to slip through our fingers, although so far none of them have ripped up trees wherever they've ended up notwithstanding the criticism our policy has attracted from the media and certain forum members.

This proves the point somewhat. We have not yet made a single one good enough to start in any top 5 European team, which is clearly what we are aspiring to be. If they cannot start for Juve or Atletico, why should they start here? I think we are getting closer and closer and I am sure we will see some progress in the next 2 to 3 years. More patience required.

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I read today that we have brought in £127 million since January, and since we last signed a player. 

Just now linked with Rudiger, who is apparently worth £30 millon and whose agent is in London.

Say we get him for £30 millon, Bakayoko for £36 millon and Sandro for £61 millon.

Total, £127 million.

Say we sell Matic for £40 millon and Costa for the alleged £50 million. And maybe Van Ginkel for about £10 millon.

That gives us another £100 millon, which will give us cash for Lukaku with a bit left over.

And barely any net spend over the last two windows. 

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paulw66   
14 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

This proves the point somewhat. We have not yet made a single one good enough to start in any top 5 European team, which is clearly what we are aspiring to be. If they cannot start for Juve or Atletico, why should they start here? I think we are getting closer and closer and I am sure we will see some progress in the next 2 to 3 years. More patience required.

How many youth products play at any of the top 5 european clubs? Messi and Iniesta at Barca, but we are talking about two all time greats. 

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Juni   

The simple response to that (from McCreadie) is that the majority of players are conditioned to playing to the standard they're afforded an opportunity at. For want of a better comparison right now, consider the Leicester players who were a part of the rise from League One to Premier League winners; there were several in there who were only deemed to be as good as the team they were a part of at the time, but as that team improved, and as they brought in better players around them, you had the likes of Morgan and Drinkwater and Vardy 'play up' to their new level.

A simpler Chelsea comparison can be extended to McEachran and Kakuta, who both looked at home in Ancelotti's team, yet less so elsewhere. You put a good prospect alongside top quality team mates and he's far more likely to thrive than if you position him with lower quality teams, where the standard of thinking and execution isn't as good. The prospect is forced to adapt his game to survive at those lower levels, all the while diminishing the traits that once marked him out for potential success at the very top.

The argument about them not starting for a top 5 European team is relatively futile because all the while Chelsea have been spunking away money on players far from being good enough to get into those same teams. The argument has never been to bring through reams and reams of academy youngsters for the sake of it, nor has it been to come at the expense of truly top-class players. It's been that they should have received greater consideration that watching endless flotsam and jetsam signed from elsewhere for many millions more than they were worth and blocking their pathways. Pato, Falcao, Djilobodji, Eduardo, Kenedy, Miazga, Remy, Salah, Eto'o, Drogba the second time around, Schwarzer, Marin all in the last five years and limited solely to players who went directly into the first-team squad (as opposed to your Atsu and Hector types, who were signed for a different purpose). What was the point of any of those whatsoever?

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JezQ8   

I'm hoping we get another AM. As with hazard injured we only have Willy and Pedro. Which could be risky going into the season.

we have the money and have made apparently around 130million for player sales in 2017 alone. 

What I hope 

willy, bakoyoko, Sandro, another AM, another RWB, and a FWD.

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Juni   
2 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

How many youth products play at any of the top 5 european clubs? Messi and Iniesta at Barca, but we are talking about two all time greats. 

If we're talking Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atlético Madrid, Bayern Munich, and Juventus, then last season:

Messi, Iniesta, Pique, Busquets, Sergi Roberto, Rafinha, Nacho, Carvajal, Lucas Vazquez, Morata, Koke, Gabi, Saúl, Torres, Lucas Hernandez, Alaba, Muller, Hummels and Lahm all played 1000+ league minutes for their respective clubs.

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6 minutes ago, Juni said:

The simple response to that (from McCreadie) is that the majority of players are conditioned to playing to the standard they're afforded an opportunity at. For want of a better comparison right now, consider the Leicester players who were a part of the rise from League One to Premier League winners; there were several in there who were only deemed to be as good as the team they were a part of at the time, but as that team improved, and as they brought in better players around them, you had the likes of Morgan and Drinkwater and Vardy 'play up' to their new level.

A simpler Chelsea comparison can be extended to McEachran and Kakuta, who both looked at home in Ancelotti's team, yet less so elsewhere. You put a good prospect alongside top quality team mates and he's far more likely to thrive than if you position him with lower quality teams, where the standard of thinking and execution isn't as good. The prospect is forced to adapt his game to survive at those lower levels, all the while diminishing the traits that once marked him out for potential success at the very top.

The argument about them not starting for a top 5 European team is relatively futile because all the while Chelsea have been spunking away money on players far from being good enough to get into those same teams. The argument has never been to bring through reams and reams of academy youngsters for the sake of it, nor has it been to come at the expense of truly top-class players. It's been that they should have received greater consideration that watching endless flotsam and jetsam signed from elsewhere for many millions more than they were worth and blocking their pathways. Pato, Falcao, Djilobodji, Eduardo, Kenedy, Miazga, Remy, Salah, Eto'o, Drogba the second time around, Schwarzer, Marin all in the last five years and limited solely to players who went directly into the first-team squad (as opposed to your Atsu and Hector types, who were signed for a different purpose). What was the point of any of those whatsoever?

Yep all fair points. Good list of flotsam by the way! I am not saying they should not be there to cover the types of player in your list, but there are many calls for them to be given a run in the first team based on their youth rather than their ability over and above the 1st 11 incumbents. I would love nothing more than 3 or 4 of our youth products to be capable of holding down a 1st team place in a couple or 3 years and I still believe it can happen. Chalobah is very close.

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12 minutes ago, Juni said:

If we're talking Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atlético Madrid, Bayern Munich, and Juventus, then last season:

Messi, Iniesta, Pique, Busquets, Sergi Roberto, Rafinha, Nacho, Carvajal, Lucas Vazquez, Morata, Koke, Gabi, Saúl, Torres, Lucas Hernandez, Alaba, Muller, Hummels and Lahm all played 1000+ league minutes for their respective clubs.

And none of our academy players are the equal or better than any of those. Yet. That is the benchmark.

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