Harvz

Transfer Talk Topic

39,706 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, James Prescott said:

Aubangeyang - yes. Absolutely yes. Baffles me how no big club has snapped him up already. And allegedly would cost less than £60 million, less than either Morata or Belotti.

We should be all over that. Who knows, given how silent we are on transfers, we might be already. Only thing with him is he's 28. Morata and Belotti, and indeed Lukaku are much younger. 

Morata seems to make most sense. A double deal for him and James Rodriguez would be awesome.

So what if he's 28? I actually think that's a bonus seeing as that means he's ready and he brings with him experience and know how. It also allows a path in the future for Batshuayi and (hopefully) Tammy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

This has happened to us before. I put it down to our club having very poor relations with the agents. Footballers, by and large, will go where their agents tell them to and if we have a reputation of playing hardball with the agents and refusing to pay the sorts of fees they now expect then we will continue to only be able to pick up the crumbs at the end of the window.

OK there aren't many clubs making significant acquisitions at this stage but we're the champions of England for pity's sake and we've already disposed of 5 members of the squad with no hint of a replacement let alone an improvement. We seem to be reactionary rather than being pro active here and I can only see it ending poorly for us, especially in the Champions League.

How do you square that off with us being top of the "Fees Paid By Premier League Clubs To Football Agents" table, along with City then? That is not it.

The reason that we are not signing 8 players in the first week of the window is because we are looking for value of some sort. We have targets and we have valuations for those targets. If we cannot get the player for the valuation (or at least around it), we walk. That has been going on for a good few years now and it is a result of the reckless scattergun approach of the first years under RA. We got taken for a ride so many times and we have had to change the approach to rebuild some sense of respect in transfer dealings. It is happening slowly, we are no longer an easy touch. Inevitably, that means we will miss out on the odd player here and there. I am fine with that. There is a balance to be had and the balance is somewhere between paying £30m for Kante, which was a steal and £100m for Lukaku, which is a complete nonsense. I would imagine that our valuation of Lukaku is around the £70m mark.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, James Prescott said:

I've read that, and generally agreed with it.

We think as one!

But losing out on what might have been our top target, to Jose Mourinho of all people, due to complacency and unwillingness to pay what is necessary to get top players, is not a smart thing to do, it's a stupid thing to do, and it smacks of incompetence. 

Despite your insistence that media consistency always equals accuracy (no smoke without fire) you do not know Lukaku was or is our top target. You do not know he is 'lost' if he is. You do not know if we have been complacent or what we are willing to pay. IMO Everton would very much welcome a bidding war - and as Lukaku has said he's going, why would they not accept offers that meet their valuation?

Pre-season starts Monday, our first competitive fixture is in under a month, and all we've signed is a backup goalkeeper, whilst losing about 3 or 4 players from last season. That's not smart. 

I think we continued to sign players throughout the pre-season period. And we won the Premier League. (I would also reference that many previous signings have gone to the wire - Essien for example)

Chelsea play the loan and selling game better than anyone, I agree. In that respect, they are very very smart. But since Marina came in our buying has been erratic and poorly planned. Too many late deals, not getting first choice targets. 

Your criticism is based on the assumption that 'early deals' equal good deals. What if the club and coach have decided that 'value for money' is worth waiting for. Conte went on record last season as saying that it was wrong to pay over the odds for players. He also seems to me to be a coach we believes he can extract more from less expensive players, putting team and system above 'stars'.

Kenyon and Gourlay got the big deals done. They were football people who knew how the game worked, respected in football.

I think that Roman now qualifies as 'a football person' - and I recall consistent criticism of Gourlay's incompetence on this forum.

Marina is Roman's woman, a business person, not a football person. She's done brilliantly with sales, no one can deny that - but abysmally with purchases, in my view.

Football is a business. The days of Harry Rednapp turning up on your door with an envelope full of used fivers are gone.

Yes, we've got some good late deals, but we always seem to miss out on anyone above £35 million because we won't pay the money or try to scrimp and save anything we can instead of going for the jugular. For a club with our resources and ambition, it's frustrating.

A fair criticism if 1. High prices always equated to high performance and sustainable value (we know from Chelsea's experience that they don't) and 2. We hadn't been so consistently successful - surely a sign that something is working.

 

My responses in red.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

How do you square that off with us being top of the "Fees Paid By Premier League Clubs To Football Agents" table, along with City then? That is not it.

The reason that we are not signing 8 players in the first week of the window is because we are looking for value of some sort. We have targets and we have valuations for those targets. If we cannot get the player for the valuation (or at least around it), we walk. That has been going on for a good few years now and it is a result of the reckless scattergun approach of the first years under RA. We got taken for a ride so many times and we have had to change the approach to rebuild some sense of respect in transfer dealings. It is happening slowly, we are no longer an easy touch. Inevitably, that means we will miss out on the odd player here and there. I am fine with that. There is a balance to be had and the balance is somewhere between paying £30m for Kante, which was a steal and £100m for Lukaku, which is a complete nonsense. I would imagine that our valuation of Lukaku is around the £70m mark.

 

The trouble is mate that there isn't the pool of players available for sale these days. You have to pick up what you can when you can. And you certainly don't go selling half a team's worth of squad players before you've got replacements at least lined up. It lookls like to me that acquisitions aren't talking to disposals at the club. At this rate we'll be scrabbling for top 6 with the added pressure of Champions League football next season. If the season started tomorrow I'm not sure who our squad would be what with the loaners out and unavailable too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Holymoly said:

If the season started tomorrow I'm not sure who our squad would be what with the loaners out and unavailable too.

If your auntie was a man then she'd be your uncle. The season doesn't start tomorrow, we're not even into pre-season yet, FFS.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, James Prescott said:

But losing out on what might have been our top target, to Jose Mourinho of all people, due to complacency and unwillingness to pay what is necessary to get top players, is not a smart thing to do, it's a stupid thing to do, and it smacks of incompetence. 

Except that we don't know that Lukaku actually was our top target. Just as if he was/is a target of any kind, we lost zip until we see an actual announcement/signing. If if any of that does happen, on what basis would you assume/know that it was the result of 'complacency' and 'incompetence'? You wouldn't. And neither would anyone else here. And if 'pay what is necessary' is your  shorthand for overpaying  to around 100 mill, then I'm glad that the transfer business is in the club's hands, and not yours. I like Lukaku, but he isn't worth anywhere near 100 mill, and you can take that to the bank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BlueFizz said:

My responses in red.

That's a lot of stuff to comment on. 

Roman qualifies as a football person. Marina doesn't. By football person, I mean someone who has worked in the industry, not the owner of a football club - though Roman clearly could be called a football man. I do agree football isn't like it was with Harry Redknapp, completely. Gourlay, yes, true - but then he got deals done for Torres and Luiz, as well as Hazard, Oscar and Mata, not fussing over a couple of million.

I won't comment on Lukaku as that's raking over old ground, but we'll agree to differ there.

Do you seriously think David Luiz and Marcos Alonso were our number one targets all summer? There's absolutely no way they were. I'm not a fan of waiting till deadline day - managers generally prefer getting their signings before or during pre-season, it helps for fitness, training and tactics, not to mention team spirit.

I get your point about waiting for the right deal, yes. But panic buying on deadline day isn't a strategy. We've made it work with lesser players. But you generally don't challenge for or win the PL and CL consistently that way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Michael Tucker said:

Except that we don't know that Lukaku actually was our top target. Just as if he was/is a target of any kind, we lost zip until we see an actual announcement/signing. If if any of that does happen, how would you (or anyone else) assume/know that it was the result of 'complacency' and 'incompleteence'? You wouldn't. And neither would anyone else here. And if 'pay what is necessary' is shorthand for overpaying  to around 100 mill, then I'm glad that the transfer business is in the club's hands, and not yours. I like Lukaku, but he isn't with anywhere near 100 mill, and you can take that to the bank.

Well Jim White on Talksport, who's pretty well connected, just said he was Conte's top target. Informed opinion in the media says it too.

White said a source close to Chelsea told him Conte is unhappy at losing Lukaku, unhappy at not getting players, and that his staff, who were on one year contracts, haven't signed new ones so are effectively unemployed. He thinks Conte could leave over Lukaku - I think we'd know then that Lukaku was his first choice, and I'd rather not find out that way.

Jim White also said it's too late on Lukaku as United and Everton's lawyers are talking. 

I honestly doubt Jim White would make that up. He's proven to be well connected in football. 

I refuse to believe 90 per cent of the media just made up the story that Conte is unhappy and wanted Lukaku, especially as Conte tried to get Lukaku at Juve, so is clearly a fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, James Prescott said:

Well Jim White on Talksport, who's pretty well connected, just said he was Conte's top target. Informed opinion in the media says it too.

 

Jim White said so on Talksport? Well then it must be true!

Sometimes James, you make me laugh with this nonsense - "Informed opinion" my a#se!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, James Prescott said:

Well Jim White on Talksport, who's pretty well connected, just said he was Conte's top target. Informed opinion in the media says it too.

 

Jim White is a bellend who makes transfers all about him

Dan Levene is quoted as saying that Lukaku was Emanalo's man, not Conte's, which suggests the board are listening to the manager 

Who knows who is right? we dont. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now