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Transfer Talk Topic

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6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

that first Mourinho side was imho the best team the Premier League  has seen.

Agreed, and it's not even that close imo. 

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4 hours ago, James Prescott said:

I am by no means Jose's biggest fan right now. But a Porto he had little money, certainly in comparison to Europe's bigger clubs, and won the CL. 

However I do get people's point. He is a money merchant in many ways - but still, at his best, was a great tactician and motivator. And he is still is from time to time. 

However Conte has had success with much smaller budgets than Jose has had, especially adjusting for inflation. Conte makes players better. He turns average players into very good players (see Moses and Alonso last season), and very good players into great ones (Luiz). I've never seen Jose do that, TBH.

Bollocks. Jose spent £64m net over three summer windows and two January windows. 

Conte spent £52m net his first season and £100m net his first summer. 

 

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5 minutes ago, PeteRobbo said:

Sorry James, but didn't you pose the question earlier "what might Mourinho have achieved if he'd been backed"?

Of FFS. I was hypothesising what would have happened, if Jose had got, for example, Pogba and Stones in 2015, and if our season had been a little better. Maybe he'd have asked for Lukaku this summer and got him, who knows.

I was not saying Jose getting backed would have saved his job, or saved us from our disastrous season last year, or was the whole reason that happened. It was a 'what if' question. Jose is a Chelsea legend and did a huge amount for this club. I'll always be grateful for that, and he'll always be a legend to me in that respect - especially in his first time with us.

Fact is though, he also got us close to being relegated, which is why he had to go, and he should be criticised for that, and take responsibility for it. One reason I got so angry with him was, and still is, his (and his fans) cowardly and arrogant refusal to take responsibility for any defeats, anything which goes wrong, or any poor run of form, and blame it on anyone and everyone else (even the linesman, the fixture computer, and playing European football - pathetic, all of them). Last season at United was particularly pathetic, as was his last few months at Chelsea. 

Anyway, he's gone, and he's been nothing but rude about Chelsea since he left, so he's the past now.

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18 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's a very emotive topic , keeping and selling players but let's not denigrate the immense contribution to our history that Jose Mourinho gave us .

We can get behind Conte , we can believe that Conte is the better manager but let's not pretend Jose wasn't a genius when he first rocked up , that first Mourinho side was imho the best team the Premier League  has seen.

To me he's the enemy now but my goodness he was incredible for us.

Agreed. That 04/05 team were the best team in Europe that year, not just in England. Still my favourite season ever, even more than winning the CL. Only bad decisions and bad luck stopped us winning the CL that year, and we played some truly phenomenal football. Our defence was just incredible too. Best season ever. 

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1 minute ago, James Prescott said:

Of FFS. I was hypothesising what would have happened, if Jose had got, for example, Pogba and Stones in 2015, and if our season had been a little better. Maybe he'd have asked for Lukaku this summer and got him, who knows.

I was not saying Jose getting backed would have saved his job, or saved us from our disastrous season last year, or was the whole reason that happened. It was a 'what if' question. Jose is a Chelsea legend and did a huge amount for this club. I'll always be grateful for that, and he'll always be a legend to me in that respect - especially in his first time with us.

Fact is though, he also got us close to being relegated, which is why he had to go, and he should be criticised for that, and take responsibility for it. One reason I got so angry with him was, and still is, his (and his fans) cowardly and arrogant refusal to take responsibility for any defeats, anything which goes wrong, or any poor run of form, and blame it on anyone and everyone else (even the linesman, the fixture computer, and playing European football - pathetic, all of them). Last season at United was particularly pathetic, as was his last few months at Chelsea. 

Anyway, he's gone, and he's been nothing but rude about Chelsea since he left, so he's the past now.

Yes, but I do think you had something of a mixed message there. I agree with you in so far as I too would have much preferred him to stick with Mata, De Bruyne etc. As well as Lukaku I suppose and I think he was mistaken not too. But if you point that out then I don't think you can simultaneously suggest that had "he been backed" things would have gone well. He would still have got rid of all of those players would he not?

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Just now, PeteRobbo said:

Yes, but I do think you had something of a mixed message there. I agree with you in so far as I too would have much preferred him to stick with Mata, De Bruyne etc. As well as Lukaku I suppose and I think he was mistaken not too. But if you point that out then I don't think you can simultaneously suggest that had "he been backed" things would have gone well. He would still have got rid of all of those players would he not?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. My point was if a manager had stuck with those players, we'd have been better for it in the long run.

And my other, quite separate point, was, if Jose had been backed and it had the impact he probably beleives it would have done (it's impossible for us to say if it would or not, personally I'm not sure it would have made a difference), then he would likely have stayed, and we might have just signed Lukaku now.

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11 minutes ago, James Prescott said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean. My point was if a manager had stuck with those players, we'd have been better for it in the long run.

And my other, quite separate point, was, if Jose had been backed and it had the impact he probably beleives it would have done (it's impossible for us to say if it would or not, personally I'm not sure it would have made a difference), then he would likely have stayed, and we might have just signed Lukaku now.

Right, I see what you mean, but I still think that had he been backed he would still have got rid of those players we both admired and so, therefore, I also believe it would have turned out the same in the end.  

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I don't want to be unkind but Pogba really does have ideas above his station and thinks he's better than the evidence would suggest , it looks like Romelu is going down the same path , wanting the renown but without putting in the work first . Why strive to be the best when you can bleach your hair , invent your own dance and be paid like you were anyway?

Not the kind of player we need imho.

 

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