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Transfer Talk Topic

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41 minutes ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

Sorry no logic.

The club has sold and England U21 international who is about to be promoted to the England senior squad for 5 million and if you believe the rumours the club is will to spend in excess of 25 million for a very overrated England international who only has one year remaining on his contract?

the only difference between the players is minutes in the 1st team, the latter has more because the club he plays for are mid table shite, the same could be said about Chelsea new feeder club Leicester? Is Drinkwater an upgrade on Chalobah? 

 

"if you believe the rumours..."

But I don't.

 

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55 minutes ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

I am not opposed to the loan system it is the timing of the loans which concerns me.

Why the club does not wait until the Conte is happy with the 1st team squad before loaning player is beyond me, Players like Van Ginkel have played senior and European football and could do a job. however he is loaned out again when it is obvious that additional cover is needed in Midfield. Could anyone here say that Drinkwater at 30mil is any better than Van Grinkle?

Same could be said for Blackman. Is willy and better as 3rd choice keeper?

Bang on.

We should just use our promoted players from the youth team as backup players, and if they are good enough they'll find their way into the match day squad. JT was already ready and was sent on a short loan for a final test, that was done the right way - short quick loans for testing is fine. 2-3-4 year loans are just a waste of time for the club and the player - we've probably set quite a few careers back if not ruined some by using a our loan system.

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16 minutes ago, GURJ SS said:

Bang on.

We should just use our promoted players from the youth team as backup players, and if they are good enough they'll find their way into the match day squad. JT was already ready and was sent on a short loan for a final test, that was done the right way - short quick loans for testing is fine. 2-3-4 year loans are just a waste of time for the club and the player - we've probably set quite a few careers back if not ruined some by using a our loan system.

And what if they're not good enough yet needed to do a job on the pitch?

 

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Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, Ham said:

 

Is Matic a genius or is Mourinho an idiot? 

Sophie's choice for someone on here.

 

I think I know who you're referring to. Must admit it's a delicious irony. All last season he was boring everybody shitless with his repetitive claims that Conte was useless and Mourinho was The Second Coming, yet Conte won the title against all odds and Mourinho finished 6th despite having the most expensive squad ever assembled in the history of football. Now, to top things off, his idol has signed Matic for 40 big ones plus another 10 in add-ons, the same Matic who we've been reliably told (again and again and again) is absolute garbage. And guess what? When Utd do far better next season he'll claim Matic has nothing to do with it. Lest we forget of course this is the same guy who thought Mikel was the reincarnation of Franz Beckenbauer. I wonder if he's ever got anything right on this site?

 

Anyway, everyone's entitled to their opinion so let's not dwell on that. Many Chelsea fans are deeply unhappy that Matic was sold to Utd but I think if they were told at the start of the summer that we would get Conte's number 1 choice (after the unavailable Nainggolan) in Bakayoko and sell Matic to Utd for 50 big ones they would have accepted that. Matic may not be a genius (as Jose puts it) but as a holding midfielder he has few peers. When he first came he played in a 2 beside Fabregas with Oscar in the 10 role and Matic was incredible, a vast improvement over the lamentable Mikel. Remember he was playing beside Fabregas who offers practically nothing defensively yet we swept all before us, in a 4231 formation. Matic screened the defence expertly, allowing Fabregas to do his thing. That free-flowing football got sacrificed as teams worked out they could outnumber us in midfield (Matic was having to do the work of 2 people) and we battened down the hatches to win the title, often with Ramires taking Fabregas' place in away games. The season after that went horribly wrong and evidently Matic wasn't happy with something, and in fact he hardly played under Guus*. I think it's telling that Conte had to persuade him to stay last summer and this summer Matic wanted to re-join Mourinho. We don't know what went on behind the scenes in Jose's last season but we do know that Matic suits Jose's formation far more than he does Conte's. At Utd, Matic will hold but instead of Fabregas alongside him he'll have Herrera, and he'll have Pogba ahead of him making up the midfield. In other words, Jose will play Matic to his strengths and the player will be happy, and he'll have a bloody good season and be a vital member of the team. Under Conte Matic had to be more than just a holding player, and while he was good there are players out there that can perform that role better, such as Bakayoko we hope, who is a bit more all-action. Swapping Matic for Bakayoko undoubtedly suits Conte but unfortunately signing Matic undoubtedly suits Mourinho, both managers playing different formations. Jose wants a specialist holding player while Conte doesn't, that's the bottom line. We'll have to see who comes out on top. It will be intriguing.

 

Utd will be our biggest challengers this season, because of their squad and the signing of Matic. Mourinho always wins the title in his 2nd season and it always goes tits-up in his third. If he doesn't win it this season he never will. However Conte is a far superior manager so I'm not worried, despite our inferior squad. City's squad is also superior but again our manager is better. Lots of angst and soul-searching in this thread but we'll be okay, I told you before that we would sign a top striker and so it's proved and I'm telling you now we will sign 2 or 3 more players and everybody will be happy, the priority being CM and LWB as I've said before. A RWB and a CF would also be nice. I'm very optimistic about our season. Our squad is already stronger than last season's, if only marginally. The bottom line is last season Conte only had 13 players he could trust. This season he already has 14, and you never know he might also trust Batshuayi and Christensen, and we haven't finished yet. We're getting rid of so many players so we can bring in players the manager wants. Sometimes you can't always conclude all of your business early. Last year we left things late with 1 or 2 and that worked out pretty good. There's no reason why the same can't happen this time.

 

* I seem to recall Matic scoring at Sunderland and not celebrating. Something was definitely amiss.

Edited by Mr Marvellous
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

Sorry no logic.

The club has sold and England U21 international who is about to be promoted to the England senior squad for 5 million and if you believe the rumours the club is will to spend in excess of 25 million for a very overrated England international who only has one year remaining on his contract?

the only difference between the players is minutes in the 1st team, the latter has more because the club he plays for are mid table shite, the same could be said about Chelsea new feeder club Leicester? Is Drinkwater an upgrade on Chalobah? 

I see where you want with this, but think you fail to see what's in front of your eyes. Why do you think we sell Chalobah for 5.5mp? Obviously because there are a buy back clause probably not very much higher than that. Chalobah wanted first team football, did not want to sign an extension despite being offered 65.000p/w and a better role. We had three options:

1) Use him as a squad player this year and let his contract run out

2) Sell him for as much money we can get for him. Aké went for 20mp so would expect similar figures for an England U21 international pushing for the England squad

3) Sell him for a smaller fee to a smaller club to make sure we are in a great position to resign a player (at a low cost) that we really want but that currently lacks the experience needed to command a place in a team of our stature

I am happy we went for 3) over the other two options. Think it is pretty likely we will see him back at Chelsea in a couple of years.

Edited by jones

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, Dingus said:

And what if they're not good enough yet needed to do a job on the pitch?

 

If we have a 2 man central midfield of Kante and Baka, we need someone who offers us a more attacking option in Cesc and a balanced player which we had in Chalobah, and then Pasalic; both more than enough, could have kept both and got them to fight for places - competition will push these players. Take Pasalic for example - 70 starts at 22, he can more than do a job, but we would rather loan him out and bring in Drinkwater who at 27 will probably be given a 4 year deal; and we will have to carry on loaning players out because we won't be able to move him on.

Edit: Thing is we have players out on loan that would be good enough, unless what you are saying is that we should have 2 top quality players for each position; because no club has that.

Edited by GURJ SS

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1 hour ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

I am not opposed to the loan system it is the timing of the loans which concerns me.

Why the club does not wait until the Conte is happy with the 1st team squad before loaning player is beyond me, Players like Van Ginkel have played senior and European football and could do a job. however he is loaned out again when it is obvious that additional cover is needed in Midfield. Could anyone here say that Drinkwater at 30mil is any better than Van Grinkle?

Same could be said for Blackman. Is willy and better as 3rd choice keeper?

On what basis do you assume that the club has not consulted Conte about the timing of loans? It seems more likely they check-in with him about these things, than not. But you may have inside knowledge - which would be great to hear about.

Also, isn't Drinkwater a fairly 'cold' rumour that seems to be fizzling out of the attention-deficit sports pages as soon as it burst into life.

Finally, Caballero is our second choice keeper - so, yes - he's better than Blackman. Huge amount of high level experience.

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2 hours ago, Dingus said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40814854

How bitter are La Liga though!

and the irony is barca and RM having been doing it to others for years. Maybe they are worried their drawing power will start to fade

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Some people need to move on as Chalobah has. I can't believe how many posts I read about him and if only he was still with us....he isn't

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3 hours ago, BlueFizz said:

Really good points.

Having said that, don't you think that the number-crunchers at the club, working for Abramovich, at our accountants, various consultancy that advice us, will have drawn up a similar list, weighed the risks against the advantages, and decided it is still appropriate to continue on this path?

 

I'm sure they have. 

However, there are several points that I made which makes our course of action unwise. Too much uncertainty (player development and injury risk) while the direction of the market for the lower level footballer is hard to predict. 

I see little value having those players hanging around - especially when you consider we could use the proceeds to strengthen now. 

44 minutes ago, Mr Marvellous said:

... Mourinho finished 6th despite having the most expensive squad ever assembled in the history of football...

Now, to top things off, his idol has signed Matic for 40 big ones plus another 10 in add-ons, the same Matic who we've been reliably told (again and again and again) is absolute garbage. And guess what? When Utd do far better next season he'll claim Matic has nothing to do with it. Lest we forget of course this is the same guy who thought Mikel was the reincarnation of Franz Beckenbauer. I wonder if he's ever got anything right on this site?

Anyway, everyone's entitled to their opinion so let's not dwell on that. Many Chelsea fans are deeply unhappy that Matic was sold to Utd but I think if they were told at the start of the summer that we would get Conte's number 1 choice (after the unavailable Nainggolan) in Bakayoko and sell Matic to Utd for 50 big ones they would have accepted that. Matic may not be a genius (as Jose puts it) but as a holding midfielder he has few peers. When he first came he played in a 2 beside Fabregas with Oscar in the 10 role and Matic was incredible, a vast improvement over the lamentable Mikel. Remember he was playing beside Fabregas who offers practically nothing defensively yet we swept all before us, in a 4231 formation. Matic screened the defence expertly, allowing Fabregas to do his thing. That free-flowing football got sacrificed as teams worked out they could outnumber us in midfield (Matic was having to do the work of 2 people) and we battened down the hatches to win the title, often with Ramires taking Fabregas' place in away games. The season after that went horribly wrong and evidently Matic wasn't happy with something, and in fact he hardly played under Guus*. I think it's telling that Conte had to persuade him to stay last summer and this summer Matic wanted to re-join Mourinho. We don't know what went on behind the scenes in Jose's last season but we do know that Matic suits Jose's formation far more than he does Conte's. At Utd, Matic will hold but instead of Fabregas alongside him he'll have Herrera, and he'll have Pogba ahead of him making up the midfield. In other words, Jose will play Matic to his strengths and the player will be happy, and he'll have a bloody good season and be a vital member of the team. Under Conte Matic had to be more than just a holding player, and while he was good there are players out there that can perform that role better, such as Bakayoko we hope, who is a bit more all-action. Swapping Matic for Bakayoko undoubtedly suits Conte but unfortunately signing Matic undoubtedly suits Mourinho, both managers playing different formations. Jose wants a specialist holding player while Conte doesn't, that's the bottom line. We'll have to see who comes out on top. It will be intriguing.

Utd will be our biggest challengers this season, because of their squad and the signing of Matic.

Regarding the bolded bit, clearly not true.  Factor in 'football inflation' and it's not even close. 

Many good points raised on Matic though. Personally I think he wanting to leave is grounded in;

1. He knows that Jose knows how to utilise him best

2. He fell out with the club in the 2015-16 season (probably both salary claims but also how that season was handled by the club)

Just speculating of course. 

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