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Juni   
6 hours ago, SS_89 said:

What exactly do you want? Top class players on the bench? Reality check those players aren't content being bench warmers anymore given they can now get those wages and first team football at other clubs. Gone are the 2004-2010 years where we could have nearly 2 world class players in every position.

Do I think the squad is perfect? Not even close but do I want to buy into the circlejerk of negativity around here? Absolutely not. I do wonder if some of you even enjoy watching or supporting Chelsea given how badly you feel the club is doing.

Except that the very best clubs in Europe are able to retain a full squad of top class players, players certainly better than Chelsea's questionable depth.

Chelsea: Caballero, Rudiger, Christensen, Clarke-Salter, Kenedy, Zappacosta, Drinkwater, Fabregas, Willian, Musonda, Batshuayi

Real Madrid: Casilla, Varane, Vallejo, Nacho, Hernandez, Kovacic, Ceballos, Vazquez, Bale, Mayoral, Benzema

Barcelona: Cillessen, Semedo, Umtiti, Vermaelen, Digne, Rafinha, Gomes, Paulinho, Arda, Deulofeu, Alcacer

Juventus: Szczesny, Benatia, Howedes, Rugani, De Sciglio, Asamoah, Matuidi, Sturaro, Cuadrado, Bernardeschi, Mandzukic

Bayern: Ulreich, Rafinha, Sule, Martinez, Bernat, Tolisso, Rudy, James, Coman, Ribery, ? (CF2 at Bayern is the only notable position missing in any of these comparisons)

Chelsea's second XI bears no comparison to anyone else there really and, once again, it's going to show in Europe. There's nothing spoilt or reactionary about wanting your club to be the best in the world, especially when it harbours the same ambitions, and there's nothing wrong with demanding more from them.

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SS_89   
7 minutes ago, Juni said:

Except that the very best clubs in Europe are able to retain a full squad of top class players, players certainly better than Chelsea's questionable depth.

Chelsea: Caballero, Rudiger, Christensen, Clarke-Salter, Kenedy, Zappacosta, Drinkwater, Fabregas, Willian, Musonda, Batshuayi

Real Madrid: Casilla, Varane, Vallejo, Nacho, Hernandez, Kovacic, Ceballos, Vazquez, Bale, Mayoral, Benzema

Barcelona: Cillessen, Semedo, Umtiti, Vermaelen, Digne, Rafinha, Gomes, Paulinho, Arda, Deulofeu, Alcacer

Juventus: Szczesny, Benatia, Howedes, Rugani, De Sciglio, Asamoah, Matuidi, Sturaro, Cuadrado, Bernardeschi, Mandzukic

Bayern: Ulreich, Rafinha, Sule, Martinez, Bernat, Tolisso, Rudy, James, Coman, Ribery, ? (CF2 at Bayern is the only notable position missing in any of these comparisons)

Chelsea's second XI bears no comparison to anyone else there really and, once again, it's going to show in Europe. There's nothing spoilt or reactionary about wanting your club to be the best in the world, especially when it harbours the same ambitions, and there's nothing wrong with demanding more from them.

Except that argument doesn't wash when some of those players have been at their respective clubs for a while and how do you know they are happy/content with being bench warmers. The fact is signing top class players now in this current market to warm a bench is a nigh on impossible task and anyone who thinks otherwise imo is deluded or naive (take your pick).

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Juni   

You don't know they're happy, same as you don't know whether Chelsea's are happy, you can only ever take them at face value and appreciate that not only are their second XIs much stronger, they're also actually used with far greater regularity than Conte will use his backup options.

You've tried to reiterate that it's an impossible task to sign top class players to warm the bench but nobody's tried to dispute that; it's about having quality, functional players to serve that purpose. Chelsea's second XI features two players who've never made a PL start and two more in Kenedy and Christensen who've made less than five combined. Juventus and Barcelona have 11 internationals, Real Madrid have 8 with three U21s who will be seniors before long, and Bayern have 9 plus the veteran backup Ulreich who rarely plays because Neuer is the best in the world.

That is the standard. Chelsea are a long way off of that. Why should we just shrug and say 'oh well' when it's their very aim to try to compete with these teams?

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paulw66   
8 minutes ago, Juni said:

. Chelsea's second XI features two players who've never made a PL start and two more in Kenedy and Christensen who've made less than five combined. Juventus and Barcelona have 11 internationals, Real Madrid have 8 with three U21s who will be seniors before long, and Bayern have 9 plus the veteran backup Ulreich who rarely plays because Neuer is the best in the world.

 

Cleverly worded. Christiensen may have only one PL start but he is a full international (your criteria for gaging the quality of Juve and Barca subs) and has played plenty of CL and Bundesliga football. 

We have a veteran back up too becuase Courtois is one of the best in the world. 

Yes, we could do with more depth but I am not sure players 18-22 are goingt to make a huge difference in the CL knockout stages. 

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16 minutes ago, Juni said:

 

That is the standard. Chelsea are a long way off of that. Why should we just shrug and say 'oh well' when it's their very aim to try to compete with these teams?

However looking at the second X1 there are 7 players with international caps for good countries. Clarke salter would probably not get a game but looks like he can do a job if tested (Kalas and Omeruo and Ake) would have been the other options but who would play CB 6 Musonda might prove he has the ability work rate to make it but again who else would come in for limited game time also have Loftus-Cheek out in top flight football as well as Palmer, Brown and Baker would have liked to see Van GInkle kept as when fit he looked promising so it looks like what the club are really short on is LWB (maybe Luke Shaw would have been an option when selling Matic) and Cf3 which we could bring in a big name Belotti or see how Abraham or Ugbo get on Solanke couldn't get in so see how these players do 

that second team actually looks quite good

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There are 4 positions (italicized) that anyone could reasonably expect us to have better quality in there:

  • Clarke Salter - We have plenty of centrebacks so that's fine. 
  • Kenedy - is awful so yes need an upgrade there but we have cover with Moses or Zappacosta.
  • Musonda - could have a break out season, clearly very talented.
  • Batshuayi - won't lead the line and we should have improved on him but he does score goals. Recall Tammy in Jan?

Other than that, it's not terrible. 

Courtois

Caballero

Azpilicueta - Luiz - Cahill

Rudiger - Christensen - Clarke Salter

Moses - Kante - Bakayoko - Alonso

Zappacosta - Drinkwater - Fabregas - Kenedy

Pedro - Hazard

Willian - Musonda

Morata

Batshuayi

Edited by bluecueball
Zappotron

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24 minutes ago, bluecueball said:

Let's start the January speculation:

There are 4 positions (italicized) that anyone could reasonably expect us to have better quality in there:

  • Clarke Salter - We have plenty of centrebacks so that's fine. No CB required IMO
  • Kenedy - is awful so yes need an upgrade there but we have cover with Moses or Zappacosta. Sandro, Telles, Shaw?
  • Musonda - could have a break out season, clearly very talented. Barkley, Mahrez?
  • Batshuayi - won't lead the line and we should have improved on him but he does score goals. Recall Tammy in Jan? Belotti?

 

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cii99mn1   

Nice to see quite a few balanced posts on this subject. 

So, finally back to football again. Who do we play against this weekend?

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Rob B   
1 hour ago, Martin1905 said:

Our second 11 is actually much better than I expected. 

That's without Zouma, Loftus-cheek and Abraham.

 

Yeah I thought this actually.  Baba will also be an upgrade on Kenedy in a few months if registered.

Kind of pointless saying now I guess, but IF we would have got Llorente, that would have been a very strong squad indeed. 

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