• Current Donation Goals

Harvz

Transfer Talk Topic

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, xCELERYx said:

Yet, you're still one of the ones who has pinned the blame on Conte for selling Ake and Chalobah in the summer. It was made very clear that Conte wanted to keep Chalobah and send him out on loan to play regularly, instead he chose to request a permeant move - just as Ake did because the guarantee of first team football wasn't there given his position in the defensive picking order. 

Can't defend one manager and then blame another for exactly the same thing.

You know it's not the same thing at all. Conte didn't want to keep Chalobah - he wanted to send him on his what, 7th loan despite showing he was good enough to play for us. 

Its not the same situation. Ake the same. These are academy products. Of course they'd stayed if they thought they'd be squad players. But said players hardly play in a Conte squad - just ask Willian, Pedro or Bats. Or Drinkwater! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
xCELERYx   
12 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

True - Luiz was spectacular last season as the CB in a middle three. Essentially the position is perfect for him. He gets time on the ball, doesn't have to man-mark anyone and is controlling the build-up phase from the back. 

Problem for Luiz is that Christensen quite clearly showed from day one that he is the future. He backed up his talent and promise with performances on the pitch. It would be criminal to play Luiz ahead of Christensen although I'd be sad to see him (Luiz)  leave. But maybe he's too expensive to be a back-up CB and selling him would probably be the right thing to do (as long as the fee is re-invested in an AM and not another CB/DM). 

Really enjoy Christensen, but also love Luiz. I don't think either player is a shoe-in for their position though, irrespective of how well Christensen has played since coming into the side.

Selling Luiz would be a mistake at this point - unless there is indeed a rift that cannot be worked through. As composed as Christensen is on the ball, we still miss Luiz's ability to drive forward or to play that front to back ball over the top that can catch defenders out and set our CF in on goal. Christensen doesn't have this creative and expansive side to his game and I believe we've suffers a little because of that in an attacking sense against certain sides. It also becomes a bigger loss when we're lacking creativity in midfield and attack. Having a CB who can make a play is a bonus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
xCELERYx   
4 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

You know it's not the same thing at all. Conte didn't want to keep Chalobah - he wanted to send him on his what, 7th loan despite showing he was good enough to play for us. 

Its not the same situation. Ake the same. These are academy products. Of course they'd stayed if they thought they'd be squad players. But said players hardly play in a Conte squad - just ask Willian, Pedro or Bats. Or Drinkwater! 

Well, no. You're choosing to bend to suit yourself.

Conte wanted to keep him at the club, what he couldn't guarantee was enough first team football for this season. Given he struggled to oust those ahead of him the previous season, the best chance he had of regular playing time was going to be out on loan. The offer of a new contract was extended to him and he declined it. Instead, he opted to leave and we obliged him. Had he stayed, he'd at best would have been 4th choice CM. The more likely situation was ending up as 5th choice because of the impending likelihood of signing another CM. 

Now, had he opted to sign a new deal and head out on loan and impressed. He'd have possibly put himself into contention. 

Ake was at best 5th/6th choice CB. That was the case when he returned from loan for the second half of the season. And would have remained the case had he stayed for this season. He was no better than those who were ahead of him and that still hasn't changed. He was never going to get the regular first team football here he wanted - purely because he wasn't better than what we already had then or have now. 

Has nothing whatsoever to do with if they were academy products or not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

Well, no. You're choosing to bend to suit yourself.

Conte wanted to keep him at the club, what he couldn't guarantee was enough first team football for this season. Given he struggled to oust those ahead of him the previous season, the best chance he had of regular playing time was going to be out on loan. The offer of a new contract was extended to him and he declined it. Instead, he opted to leave and we obliged him. Had he stayed, he'd at best would have been 4th choice CM. The more likely situation was ending up as 5th choice because of the impending likelihood of signing another CM. 

Now, had he opted to sign a new deal and head out on loan and impressed. He'd have possibly put himself into contention. 

Ake was at best 5th/6th choice CB. That was the case when he returned from loan for the second half of the season. And would have remained the case had he stayed for this season. He was no better than those who were ahead of him and that still hasn't changed. He was never going to get the regular first team football here he wanted - purely because he wasn't better than what we already had then or have now. 

Has nothing whatsoever to do with if they were academy products or not. 

No I'm not. I just disagree with you. But everything has to be agenda-driven to you doesn't it? 

Chalobah has been our brightest academy product for years. He showed he was good enough (clearly good enough) to be a squad player for us. We didn't have any need to buy another CM and the only reason why we did was because we let go of Chalobah and Matic. Conte could have said to Nate that you'll be 4th choice CM and I'll play three DMs regularly. That would have meant playing time for him. Even in the 343 Nate would have gotten time as long as Conte would have decided to actually use his squad - something he still doesn't do while bitching about having a small squad.

But Conte didn't want that did he? He wanted to send Nate on another pointless loan and obviously Nate didn't want part of that since he had already showed his credentials. You don't transfer and become a starting player for a mid-table team if you're not PL ready - he clearly is and PL ready players is something we don't really have an abundance of is it? 

Keeping Nate would have saved us at least £40m that we could have used for buying an attacker. Instead we have gotten rid of two academy products that are PL players and players that would be comparably cheap in salary. It's a derivative of the inane strategy of stock-piling CBs and DMs for no reason at all. 

Nothing you say will make me change my mind on this. It's a huge Conte blunder and a blunder that has had a big impact on the squad composition. Add Matic, Costa and very likely Luiz and a pattern starts to emerge. Next in line is surely Willian and maybe even Pedro. Why should they be content to sit on the bench when they are among our best players? I'm sure Conte will find a suitable DM and CB to replace them with. 

Edit: Regarding Ake - how can he be 6th choice CB when we only have five? Could we have saved £70m by not buying Bakayoko/Drinkwater and Rudiger? How much have those players actually played and could the £70m we spent on them have been spent on attacking players? How much has Drinkwater and Rudiger actually played and have either contributed more than Ake and Nate would have done and is that improvement (if any!) really worth £70m? The bleeding obvious answer is yes - £70m could have been spent much better and no, Rudiger and Drinkwater isn't £70m plus much higher wages better than Ake and Nate. It's hysterical cause you are the one who complains we don't spend enough. Maybe Conte should spend money on players who make a difference and keep the cheap PL players we already have. That's how you build a proper squad - not by replacing average players with other, much more expensive average players. 

Edited by Sleeping Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Edit: Regarding Ake - how can he be 6th choice CB when we only have five? Could we have saved £70m by not buying Bakayoko/Drinkwater and Rudiger? How much have those players actually played and could the £70m we spent on them have been spent on attacking players? How much has Drinkwater and Rudiger actually played and have either contributed more than Ake and Nate would have done and is that improvement (if any!) really worth £70m? The bleeding obvious answer is yes - £70m could have been spent much better and no, Rudiger and Drinkwater isn't £70m plus much higher wages better than Ake and Nate. It's hysterical cause you are the one who complains we don't spend enough. Maybe Conte should spend money on players who make a difference and keep the cheap PL players we already have. That's how you build a proper squad - not by replacing average players with other, much more expensive average players. 

We should have kept Ake and Chalobah and they should have played more.  The money spent replacing those two squad players for two more squad players was ludicrous. Conte needs to manage the squad better to keep squad players happy. That's a big part of his job. It's a lazy argument for some to say they wanted more playing time, they should have had it here. 

If we had bought one of Bakayoko or Drinkwater and saved the £70m that it cost us to replace Ake and Chalobah we could have thrown that money at someone like Alexis Sanchez, they would have found it very hard to turn it down. 

We would be a far better team with Chalobah, Ake and Sanchez than we are with Rudiger, Drinkwater and Bakayoko. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

We would be a far better team with Chalobah, Ake and Sanchez than we are with Rudiger, Drinkwater and Bakayoko. 

Yes, yes of course. 

It's a no-brainer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But , everyone is ignoring the fact that Conte keeps harping on about not being in charge of transfers , referring to himself as coach , not manager and even wearing the track suit to get his point across.

He's getting the blame for signing / not signing / and selling players that none of us know with any clarity that he was responsible for.

Just because we think it would be idiocy to employ a top coach and then not allow him the final word on signings doesn't mean that's what actually happened , particularly when from afar it often looks to the outsider that other than getting top money for excess players and good kit sponsors our lot couldn't support a manager properly if their lives depended on it .

Everyone we employ is walking the gang plank from day one .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

But , everyone is ignoring the fact that Conte keeps harping on about not being in charge of transfers , referring to himself as coach , not manager and even wearing the track suit to get his point across.

He's getting the blame for signing / not signing / and selling players that none of us know with any clarity that he was responsible for.

Just because we think it would be idiocy to employ a top coach and then not allow him the final word on signings doesn't mean that's what actually happened , particularly when from afar it often looks to the outsider that other than getting top money for excess players and good kit sponsors our lot couldn't support a manager properly if their lives depended on it .

Everyone we employ is walking the gang plank from day one .

I think it's fair to assume he has a very big say in who leaves.

Maybe he doesnt have as much of a say on who we bring in but again I think he very much chooses the type of player and position. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

But , everyone is ignoring the fact that Conte keeps harping on about not being in charge of transfers , referring to himself as coach , not manager and even wearing the track suit to get his point across.

He's getting the blame for signing / not signing / and selling players that none of us know with any clarity that he was responsible for.

So did JM. How many here are blaming the club for selling Lukaku, Salah or KDB? 

No one is the answer. 

Of course the manager has a say in who's signed and who's sold. Just because JM didn't want to sell them, doesn't mean he didn't agree to let them go after they made their feelings known. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

So did JM. How many here are blaming the club for selling Lukaku, Salah or KDB? 

No one is the answer. 

Of course the manager has a say in who's signed and who's sold. Just because JM didn't want to sell them, doesn't mean he didn't agree to let them go after they made their feelings known. 

If people are blaming Mourinho for selling those players then they are just as wrong as those blaming Conte then aren't they ?

Two wrongs don't make a right .

Look at the flack that Emanalo got on here when not one person here knew what he actually did.

Conte keeps saying it's not his responsibility , maybe it's not his responsibility ?

The coming window , where he's complained time and again about not having enough players of the type he wants will tell us more .

I'm already fearing the melt down should the club sign Virgil Van Dyke .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now