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31 minutes ago, PeteRobbo said:

Well, whenever I hear the name Jack Wilshere the first phrase that comes to mind is "injury prone". We should focus our efforts elsewhere I think.

Could sign him and send him out on loanūüėĄ

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paulw66   
1 hour ago, PeteRobbo said:

Well, whenever I hear the name Jack Wilshere the first phrase that comes to mind is "injury prone". We should focus our efforts elsewhere I think.

I fully understand that mentality. 

My view is, that even if you get only 20-25 games a season from him, for a free transfer, that is a good deal. 

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47 minutes ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

Could sign him and send him out on loanūüėĄ

Excellent! Yeh, why not? It would be good for his development.

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1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

I fully understand that mentality. 

My view is, that even if you get only 20-25 games a season from him, for a free transfer, that is a good deal. 

This would be compounding the error of signing someone going nowhere, like Wilshere. We should either be bringing in world beaters or giving our youngsters a go. Wilshere does play the same position as RLC and Mount so would restrict their already limited chances of getting a game in our midfield (of 3).

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paulw66   
1 minute ago, chiswickblue said:

This would be compounding the error of signing someone going nowhere, like Wilshere. We should either be bringing in world beaters or giving our youngsters a go. Wilshere does play the same position as RLC and Mount so would restrict their already limited chances of getting a game in our midfield (of 3).

Mount is a 10, not a CM. He will also get loaned next season I reckon. 

For a midfield 3, we currently have Kante, Fabregas, DD, Barkley, Bakayoko and RLC. IMO Wilshire is better than at least 3 of those. 

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2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

I fully understand that mentality. 

My view is, that even if you get only 20-25 games a season from him, for a free transfer, that is a good deal. 

Spot on

The club could spend 40 million on a player from a French club who allegedly is the dogs Boll**ks and the next best thing since slice bread. 

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2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

My view is, that even if you get only 20-25 games a season from him, for a free transfer, that is a good deal. 

I think there is a hell of a difference between a star player who gives you 25 starts and is not fit for the other 25, and a bench player who is just absent for 25 games a season - quite possibly during the short period you actually need him.  

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Saying that Wilshire is better than Barkley, Drinkwater and Bakayoko is a moot point as we should be selling at least one of them and having the remaining 1/2 play a squad role. The real question should be, is Wilshire a player that is going to be worthy of playing alongside Kante and getting us back to the top? For me that is an emphatic no, which is why I have no interest in him. If we are serious about getting back to the top we should be looking at players such as Jorginho, Milinkovic Savic, etc. Not some injury prone jack the lad from the mental midgits. 

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jones   

Wilshere debate is just silly fan talk imo. Instead of looking at who can we get on a free transfer, we should be looking at the new manager's system and say which player types do we lack to play this system perfectly. Just an example: 

Sarri plays 4-3-3 where the midfield is made up with:

  • "Number 4",¬†the deep lying playmaker (needs to have excellent vision and passing range)
  • "Number 6", a ball winning box to box midfielder (think Kant√©)
  • "Number 8", a more advanced/attacking midfielder that can both break quickly and effectively¬†into space on the counter and create chances when in possession

Let's say we should build the squad with two players for each positions (even if some players can play multiple roles)

4: Fabregas is a number 4, but questions remain over how he can cope with the defensive responsibility as the holding man. Could also be used as a number 8, but lacks the engine to operate box to box. The links to Seri is therefore natural. He is a natural in this position, as he has great vision and passing range and also has the mobility that Fabregas lacks. Verratti, Thiago, and of course Jorginho is better but more expensive (and probably unattainable options). Fabregas + one of the mentioned players and we have the number 4 position under control.

6: Made for Kanté. He can press high up the pitch and win balls when we defend deep. He will have less of an attacking responsibility, with a number 4 and 8 around him (plus three forwards), and that will benefit his game as he can focus at what he is best at. While Bakayoko certainly is not a like for like, I still think he can fill that back up role to a player who does not need to rest much, and also adds a bit of physicality to our midfield.

8: Here we have several options, but none that has performed in a Chelsea shirt yet. Barkley, RLC, van Ginkel and Mount are all exciting options for this role. My preference is obviously RLC and Mount, as they both have the highest potential and also have the intelligence that Barkley lacks and the quality that perhaps MVG lacks. Even if MVG and Barkley have goals in them I don't see them having the quality we need, and I'd sell/loan them both to give the chance to two extremely exciting academy products. They possess different strengths and could be used for different matches, but for sure are ready to step up.

A midfield trio of RLC - Seri/Fabregas - Kanté next year, with Mount and Bakayoko as back up, looks very interesting to me.

Drinkwater (25m), Barkley (loan?) and MVG (10m) should be moved on and will actually fund the purchase Seri. And we have massively upgraded or midfield. Really no need to be thinking about Jack Wilshere at all.

Edited by jones

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5 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I think there is a hell of a difference between a star player who gives you 25 starts and is not fit for the other 25, and a bench player who is just absent for 25 games a season - quite possibly during the short period you actually need him.  

Maybe the combination of Jack Wilshere and Ross Barkley would give us one full player? ;) 

1 hour ago, jones said:

Wilshere debate is just silly fan talk imo. Instead of looking at who can we get on a free transfer, we should be looking at the new manager's system and say which player types do we lack to play this system perfectly. Just an example: 

Sarri plays 4-3-3 where the midfield is made up with:

  • "Number 4",¬†the deep lying playmaker (needs to have excellent vision and passing range)
  • "Number 6", a ball winning box to box midfielder (think Kant√©)
  • "Number 8", a more advanced/attacking midfielder that can both break quickly and effectively¬†into space on the counter and create chances when in possession

Let's say we should build the squad with two players for each positions (even if some players can play multiple roles)

4: Fabregas is a number 4, but questions remain over how he can cope with the defensive responsibility as the holding man. Could also be used as a number 8, but lacks the engine to operate box to box. The links to Seri is therefore natural. He is a natural in this position, as he has great vision and passing range and also has the mobility that Fabregas lacks. Verratti, Thiago, and of course Jorginho is better but more expensive (and probably unattainable options). Fabregas + one of the mentioned players and we have the number 4 position under control.

6: Made for Kanté. He can press high up the pitch and win balls when we defend deep. He will have less of an attacking responsibility, with a number 4 and 8 around him (plus three forwards), and that will benefit his game as he can focus at what he is best at. While Bakayoko certainly is not a like for like, I still think he can fill that back up role to a player who does not need to rest much, and also adds a bit of physicality to our midfield.

8: Here we have several options, but none that has performed in a Chelsea shirt yet. Barkley, RLC, van Ginkel and Mount are all exciting options for this role. My preference is obviously RLC and Mount, as they both have the highest potential and also have the intelligence that Barkley lacks and the quality that perhaps MVG lacks. Even if MVG and Barkley have goals in them I don't see them having the quality we need, and I'd sell/loan them both to give the chance to two extremely exciting academy products. They possess different strengths and could be used for different matches, but for sure are ready to step up.

A midfield trio of RLC - Seri/Fabregas - Kanté next year, with Mount and Bakayoko as back up, looks very interesting to me.

Drinkwater (25m), Barkley (loan?) and MVG (10m) should be moved on and will actually fund the purchase Seri. And we have massively upgraded or midfield. Really no need to be thinking about Jack Wilshere at all.

Excellent stuff Jones, cheers! 

I agree that a 433 most surely be what we go for next season. As I see it, we have the following players on our books;

4: Fabregas, Drinkwater

6: Kanté, Bakayoko

8: Barkley, Loftus-Cheek, Van Ginkel, Mount

I think that Willian would be an excellent choice as a number 8, especially considering that his best phase of the game is the second-assist/counter-attacking phase when it initiates, not to finish suxh moves off. Plus his mobility is extraordinary and he can run all day. 

I want us to have 8 options in midfield if we are to play with a 433 in a season with EL. Perhaps Mount is best served with another loan? Either case, it's too weak to go into the season with Barkley, Loftus-Cheek and Mount as our options at 8. Perhaps a new loan for Mount, bring back Willian at 8 and have a midfield set-up looking like;

4: Seri, Fabregas

6: Kanté, Bakayoko

8: Willian, Loftus-Cheek, Barkley

The key is of course that we also have enough AMs so RLC/Willian/Barkley can be used at 8. At the moment we have Hazard, Pedro, Kenedy, Moses and Hudson-Odoi on our books (that are somewhat likely to be here next season). That needs serious strengthening and I wouldn't even use Moses as an AM but rather as an attacking RB. I'd be quite happy with something like;

Courtois, Caballero, GK3

Azpilicueta, Moses

Alonso, Emerson

Luiz, Christensen, R√ľdiger, Cahill

Seri, Fabregas, Kanté, Bakayoko, Willian, Loftus-Cheek, Barkley

Hazard, Martial, Bailey, Pedro, Kenedy, Hudson-Odoi

Morata, Giroud, Batshuayi

 

Courtois - Azpilicueta, Luiz, Christensen, Alonso - Seri, Kanté, Willian - Hazard, Morata, Martial

Caballero - Moses, R√ľdiger, Cahill, Emerson - Fabregas, Bakayoko, Loftus-Cheek - Pedro, Giroud, Bailey

Spares: Barkley, Kenedy, Hudson-Odoi, Batshuayi 

 

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