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chelboy   
20 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Yep, I'd agree with a lot of this. Just out of interest, who do you think are the late bloomers and who do you think may lose some desire and not grow?

RLC , Christensen, Mount and Gilmour could be late bloomers I feel. Ampudu, Mount,  RLC( if fit) and James will become the best out of the rest. CHO is the one I fear for in terms of not growing and getting lost in the football world. Feel like his agents may hold him back too. Can see him making poor career choices in the future. 

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Rob B   

People do realise that RLC is only about 20 months older than Tammy??  And nigh-on exactly 2 years older than Tomori?

I feel the people writing him off are going to have egg on their faces. I absolutely love Mount, Tomori, Tammy, CHO etc, but RLC is the superstar out of that lot.  He can become world-class 

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39 minutes ago, chelboy said:

. I think Rashford is going to be another Wilshere/Welbeck.

I'd be very surprised.  He is a 7/10 player week in week out already and still 21.  This is 5th season and he played almost a full part of the last 3.  Far from showing promise, he has been doing the business for 3 years.  Moreover he wasn't the brightest thing in the playground, he was probably the 25th young player used in a couple of years and yet has far outshone all the ones used before him.  

37 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

As for RLC, I'm a massive fan of his, to be honest, I just love the way he plays the game, he has the technical ability of a much smaller man but the power of someone his size, he almost glides across the pitch at times and can hold off the strongest of opposition with ease.

Yet we rarely see that size or power, and he is very ineffective when we don't have the ball.  Did he ever man mark at corners or be a target for ours?  Like Carlton Cole or Solanke, he plays 6" shorter and 20kg lighter than he is.  It is as if he has permanently been training at Cobham and never sent out to play for a Championship team on loan...

Given his height and strength and finishing ability it is quite ridiculous that he was not brought through as a CF.  Given his ability to go past a player and willingness to try that from any part of the pitch plus his ball winning weaknesses, it is ridiculous that he has been playing in CM and not at LW or RW where he can take risks.

There is something very screwed up about the way RLC has been brought through.  There has also been an exaggerated desire by the club to see him succeed, as was the case with Josh.  I wonder if that is because he was the star of his age group, whereas the current guys passing him by were all just part of a promising group and never treated as special.

I also wonder if CM is a particularly difficult position to make the change from youth to adult football in.  At youth level the pitches must see huge, expectations that players close down oppo CMs must be much lower, and consequently there is also a lot more room to play.  For Chelsea youth I imagine 75% possession is normal.  Playing adult CM is much much harder than say LW where the game is still mostly one against one, just a much wilier FB.  Over the decades it seems to me that many bright young players got brought into the first team in the easier positions, and not just Chelsea.  FB or sometimes DM instead of CB.  Winger instead of CB.  AM instead of CM.  R or LM in 442 instead of CM.

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3 minutes ago, Rob B said:

People do realise that RLC is only about 20 months older than Tammy??  And nigh-on exactly 2 years older than Tomori?

I feel the people writing him off are going to have egg on their faces. I absolutely love Mount, Tomori, Tammy, CHO etc, but RLC is the superstar out of that lot.  He can become world-class 

Yet RLC has had 4 good games for Chelsea and half a good season for Palace, while Tammy and Mount have had 4 good games for us and 2 good seasons at Bristol/Villa/Vitesse/Derby and Tomori 3 good games and a great season at Derby.

Truth is that breaking into the Chelsea team was never the impossible task everyone claimed, we just never had the players to do it.

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chelboy   
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

I'd be very surprised.  He is a 7/10 player week in week out already and still 21.  This is 5th season and he played almost a full part of the last 3.  Far from showing promise, he has been doing the business for 3 years.  Moreover he wasn't the brightest thing in the playground, he was probably the 25th young player used in a couple of years and yet has far outshone all the ones used before him.  

 

 

 

Has hardly developed his game and is very predictable and easy to play against. Soft on the ball and doesn’t seem to have a football brain. I would be surprised if he turns out to be anything decent. I don’t see the 7/10 you see week in week out . Rather I see many performance ratings from 3-7 week in week out and can hardly put in 3 good performances in a row. A very hot and cold player who got hyped up too fast. 

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2 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

If the ban is overturned for the January window, I wouldn't be that shocked to see a £+Bats deal for Zaha. I have a feeling the Zaha deal is already done in some form, ready for when the window reopens.

I think he'd be a decent signing, but I agree with those that have said we should be looking for TOP class talent almost exclusively in the next few windows, if and it's still quite a big if, the youngsters continue playing at this level for the entire season. If we do manage to bring through a batch of genuine squad players (and some first-teamers) from our academy this season and next (potentially Gilmour and Ampadu could be added to what we've already got) then that's a HUGE step forward for this club and it would really allow us to go out and spend big on the right players.

For me the areas we need to look to strengthen asap with top class/world class talent are CB, Strong and physical CM and AM - I think we also need to find another quality striker to be backup to Tammy but also to allow us to play 2 up top if required, Werner looks interesting to me because I think he could also play either side in a 433. Full backs probably need looking at quite soon too, depending on the form of Azpi, Alonso and Emerson and how well James does over the next 12 months or so.

As for RLC, I'm a massive fan of his, to be honest, I just love the way he plays the game, he has the technical ability of a much smaller man but the power of someone his size, he almost glides across the pitch at times and can hold off the strongest of opposition with ease. All that said, he obviously needs to sort out his injuries if he's really going to become a top player because it's one thing to do it in small chunks of a season, but you need to maintain that level throughout an entire season(s), just ask our manager. Ability wise, he's possibly as good as we have if he can get it right consistently and get rid of the injuries. One of my best mates is a Palace season ticket holder and he is always telling me how impressive RLC was for them and that he could instantly tell he was far too good for them and a really special player and I agree with him.

My thoughts exactly on Zaha. I have felt since that day palace refused to sell him, that a club might have a broad verbal agreement in place for Zaha and I just get the impression it’s us.

Whether it would happen in January I’m not sure. It would be such a massive risk for Palace. I suspect it’s more likely in the summer.

I’d be quite happy to have him. I would hope he can become more of a team player when he has better players around him. I think he plays how he does now because he knows how reliant Palace are upon him. Bit similar to Grealish at Villa, I think both of them will improve with less responsibility on them and better players alongside them.

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1 hour ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

My thoughts exactly on Zaha. I have felt since that day palace refused to sell him, that a club might have a broad verbal agreement in place for Zaha and I just get the impression it’s us.

Whether it would happen in January I’m not sure. It would be such a massive risk for Palace. I suspect it’s more likely in the summer.

I’d be quite happy to have him. I would hope he can become more of a team player when he has better players around him. I think he plays how he does now because he knows how reliant Palace are upon him. Bit similar to Grealish at Villa, I think both of them will improve with less responsibility on them and better players alongside them.

I am not too sure. From what I understand, Zaha thought he was off to Arsenal and had a verbal agreement with the chairman that he could leave but no one would poney up the £80m they wanted. As a result, Arsenal went for Pepe as they got him in instalments and he is younger. 

When looking at the market next year (I think you can only do so much in Jan), I do not see Zaha being high on our priority list. He would still cost £60m+ and want top wages as it is his last big contract, while other players such as Sancho, Werner (can play No9/No11) and Depay (cheaper) will all be on the move. For me, I cannot see us stumping up serious money on a 27 year old who has only done the business at Palace. I think he is someone that has been screwed a little by his chairman as he kind of has Everton written all over him now. 

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3 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I'd be very surprised.  He is a 7/10 player week in week out already and still 21.  This is 5th season and he played almost a full part of the last 3.  Far from showing promise, he has been doing the business for 3 years.  Moreover he wasn't the brightest thing in the playground, he was probably the 25th young player used in a couple of years and yet has far outshone all the ones used before him.  

Yet we rarely see that size or power, and he is very ineffective when we don't have the ball.  Did he ever man mark at corners or be a target for ours?  Like Carlton Cole or Solanke, he plays 6" shorter and 20kg lighter than he is.  It is as if he has permanently been training at Cobham and never sent out to play for a Championship team on loan...

Given his height and strength and finishing ability it is quite ridiculous that he was not brought through as a CF.  Given his ability to go past a player and willingness to try that from any part of the pitch plus his ball winning weaknesses, it is ridiculous that he has been playing in CM and not at LW or RW where he can take risks.

There is something very screwed up about the way RLC has been brought through.  There has also been an exaggerated desire by the club to see him succeed, as was the case with Josh.  I wonder if that is because he was the star of his age group, whereas the current guys passing him by were all just part of a promising group and never treated as special.

I also wonder if CM is a particularly difficult position to make the change from youth to adult football in.  At youth level the pitches must see huge, expectations that players close down oppo CMs must be much lower, and consequently there is also a lot more room to play.  For Chelsea youth I imagine 75% possession is normal.  Playing adult CM is much much harder than say LW where the game is still mostly one against one, just a much wilier FB.  Over the decades it seems to me that many bright young players got brought into the first team in the easier positions, and not just Chelsea.  FB or sometimes DM instead of CB.  Winger instead of CB.  AM instead of CM.  R or LM in 442 instead of CM.

Have to agree with you on your points on RLC and particularly the bolded bit. Personally, I have been a fan of his but have always been concerned about his lack of ability/desire off the ball. 

Your points on his position are also pertinent. However, his playing CM may also come down to his running off the ball as he is kind of like an old school 10 in that he just wants to float about and only comes alive when he is on the ball and close to goal. AM and lone CF's these days have to put in a lot of hard yards, just look at Willian, Pedro and Costa. 

His lack of running however, may also be due to the fact that at a very young age he was built like a man. I remember watching one game when he must have been about 16 and when he got on the ball it was like when someone's really good dad joined in with an under 12's training session. No one could get him off the ball and he just kind of strolled his way through everyone without really breaking sweat. It was really like a man against boys. However, that is just my own musings. 

As for his handling, I think it is starting to become clear, in my mind at least, that he was kept a Cobham owing to his injuries/growing pains. I mean he was training with the first team squad at 17, which is nearly seven years ago and even Josh went out on loan at 19. The only other reason could be that he is a homeboy. In that interview I posted on the injury thread it sounds like he spends a lot of time at home with his mum and sisters. Maybe, he just did want to come out of his comfort zone. 

Edited by King Kante

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24 minutes ago, King Kante said:

I am not too sure. From what I understand, Zaha thought he was off to Arsenal and had a verbal agreement with the chairman that he could leave but no one would poney up the £80m they wanted. As a result, Arsenal went for Pepe as they got him in instalments and he is younger. 

When looking at the market next year (I think you can only do so much in Jan), I do not see Zaha being high on our priority list. He would still cost £60m+ and want top wages as it is his last big contract, while other players such as Sancho, Werner (can play No9/No11) and Depay (cheaper) will all be on the move. For me, I cannot see us stumping up serious money on a 27 year old who has only done the business at Palace. I think he is someone that has been screwed a little by his chairman as he kind of has Everton written all over him now. 

Yeah I think the Arsenal transfer is what he wanted and I agree he probably has been screwed over on an agreement with Parish. I do think Palace will do a deal at the right price though. I think Palace were pissed at Arsenal for trying to do the deal on the cheap, I think this riled them and Palace made negotiations difficult for that point.

I also don’t think they were comfortable doing business with Everton as they were almost too much of a direct rival and felt Zaha could do better.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we are looking at a player plus cash deal. Maybe bats or Barkley plus £40 million type structure.

Football debates are becoming a little absurd if we are now questioning signing a player at 27. He’s comfortably got 4-5 years at a high level, yeah he might lose a touch of pace at the back end of those 4-5 years, but it’s not like it’s the kinda deal Higuain would have cost as a comparison. I’d say Zaha is just about in his peak now and over the next 3 years.

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36 minutes ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

Yeah I think the Arsenal transfer is what he wanted and I agree he probably has been screwed over on an agreement with Parish. I do think Palace will do a deal at the right price though. I think Palace were pissed at Arsenal for trying to do the deal on the cheap, I think this riled them and Palace made negotiations difficult for that point.

I also don’t think they were comfortable doing business with Everton as they were almost too much of a direct rival and felt Zaha could do better.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we are looking at a player plus cash deal. Maybe bats or Barkley plus £40 million type structure.

Football debates are becoming a little absurd if we are now questioning signing a player at 27. He’s comfortably got 4-5 years at a high level, yeah he might lose a touch of pace at the back end of those 4-5 years, but it’s not like it’s the kinda deal Higuain would have cost as a comparison. I’d say Zaha is just about in his peak now and over the next 3 years.

I do not think 27 is too old. It is more Zaha situation per se. He is a player who is soon to be 27 that a club as to commit a lot of money to but he has only performed at Palace. Also, next summer there are going to be a number of better players on the market that I can seen us interested in. For me, I cannot seen us doing one of them plus Zaha, unless both CHO and Pulisic flop. 

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