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43 minutes ago, King Kante said:

You say this Droy but I am not so sure. At the moment we have four CB's with only one that can be relied on to put in a 7/10 every game and he has injury issues. Tomori obviously looks great at times but does do silly passing often, that ball across the back at 0-0 was suicidal on Sunday. Zouma is also average at most aspects of the game other than speed, putting in recovery challenges and physicality. As for AC he is showing signs of regression. That is also before we get to Kepa who needs as much protection as possible from crosses.

Surely that is an argument for a system with fewer CBs not more.

44 minutes ago, King Kante said:

James however, is actually a good shout. I said it earlier in the season that he looks a bit like a CM who is masquerading as a RB. This was not to slight the kid but was my observation that he likes to come in quite a lot and when at set pieces he sits in the middle third of the box. Personally, in a 3atb system, I would want him at rwb against all but the top teams but I do agree he could be someone that could play the sweeper role. 

He looks like a bit of everything who could do anything.  Kind of like Gareth Barry who was a LB that everyone thought would turn out to be a great CB but moved into CM/DM.
On the one hand his crossing is so good why play him anywhere but the right touchline.  On the other hand if he can cross that accurately  I'm pretty sure he can play long passes well too.
In wide positions you need to be able to cross OR have pace to get past the defender (who in protecting against one, makes the other an easy option).  So James doesn't need pace, but I don't think he has it - he looks no faster than Alonso to me.  Actually both James and Alonso could play as ball playing CBs.  

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kratos   

I'm not terribly confident how Isco will cope in the premier league. Unlike Spain where he got most decisions going his way. But over here one good clonk and you won't see him again.

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Kezza   
2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

That would be the hope. I remember seeing him a couple of years ago and thought he was world beater, but like you say, in the clown world of Real Madrid, he isn't high profile enough to get regular games, rather than judging him on talent 

They really are a bit of a clown. Getting rid of Isco for Eriksen. Not sure if there is really a net positive improvement there. I really feel Isco is Hazard 2.0 and more direct.

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3 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Surely that is an argument for a system with fewer CBs not more.

He looks like a bit of everything who could do anything.  Kind of like Gareth Barry who was a LB that everyone thought would turn out to be a great CB but moved into CM/DM.
On the one hand his crossing is so good why play him anywhere but the right touchline.  On the other hand if he can cross that accurately  I'm pretty sure he can play long passes well too.
In wide positions you need to be able to cross OR have pace to get past the defender (who in protecting against one, makes the other an easy option).  So James doesn't need pace, but I don't think he has it - he looks no faster than Alonso to me.  Actually both James and Alonso could play as ball playing CBs.  

A) Yes and no. The problem we have is that we have a GK that is suspect at best on crosses and Alonso who is pretty poor at LB but very good at LWB and becomes our most dangerous player after Tammy, Puli and Willian. People argue for Emerson but he is pretty average to me. Further, if the CB's have extra cover we are in a safer position when they lose the ball. 3atb is the only system that has not left us wide open at the back which has been our biggest problem. Of course the system is not perfect, especially without a ball playing CB, but it is the best fit atm. 

B) Agree with everything bar the James is just as fast as Alonso. 

Edited by King Kante

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26 minutes ago, King Kante said:

in aA) Yes and no. The problem we have is that we have a GK that is suspect at best on crosses and Alonso who is pretty poor at LB but very good at LWB

We have done this to death - Alonso plays exactly the same way as any other FB in the league including Azpi, Emerson, James, who all find themselves in the box whether we have 2 or 3 CBs.  None of them are able to magic their way back to their own half through a bit of extra pace.  The formation doesn't make him a better or worse player.
I also think some of the wonder attacker reports about him are exaggerated.  

26 minutes ago, King Kante said:

and becomes our most dangerous player after Tammy, Puli and Willian.

You forget Mount (or Pedro or CHO if picked).  

27 minutes ago, King Kante said:

A) Yes and no. The problem we have is that we have a GK that is suspect at best on crosses
.....
Further, if the CB's have extra cover we are in a safer position when they lose the ball. 3atb is the only system that has not left us wide open at the back which has been our biggest problem. O

I don't see having a short keeper as a strong argument to change the system.
Yes we get caught out a lot when we lose the ball, at CB or anywhere else.  The answer then is not to lose the ball so much and not to flood forward so much.
I see that 3atb cures the problem - but there is a much much simpler solution with not cost:  Don't play crazy football.
As at Wolves, I see a one-off 3atb being a quickly psychological cure rather than a better system.  Hopefully Frank thinks the same way.
(especially since 3atb means losing the Jorginho role, making playing out from the back no easier at all).

26 minutes ago, King Kante said:

B) Agree with everything bar the James is just as fast as Alonso. 

I guess James hasn't actually played for us all that often.  I certainly don't recall seeing him in a foot race against a sprinter.  For those of us that haven't watched him at Derby I think his pace remains unevidenced.

Edited by Droy was my hero

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On 22/12/2019 at 2:16 AM, OfWolfAndBiggs said:

Wouldn’t be the worst deal in the world, that way we can let Willian leave in the summer with a replacement already sorted. We desperately need more goals in the team and Sancho's numbers are good. 

My biggest worry is the age of our attack: Odoi and potentially Sancho 19, Pulisic 21 and Tammy 22. Perhaps we should keep Willian if he’d accept a reduced role

You’ve got to be joking. Willian has been one of the best, if not the best, player this season. Him, Kovacic and Abraham are pretty much making up the shortlist for Chelsea PotY. 

Reduced role? Who should play ahead of him? Jadon Sancho or Hudson-Odoi? They are both miles behind Willian at the moment. I hope the club pulls out all the stops to keep Willian for at least one more season. 

 

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38 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

You’ve got to be joking. Willian has been one of the best, if not the best, player this season. Him, Kovacic and Abraham are pretty much making up the shortlist for Chelsea PotY. 

Reduced role? Who should play ahead of him? Jadon Sancho or Hudson-Odoi? They are both miles behind Willian at the moment. I hope the club pulls out all the stops to keep Willian for at least one more season. 

 

Agree that Willian has been one of our best players this season but STRONGLY disagree that he is miles ahead of Sancho. Callum yes but Sancho has been absolutely tearing it up in the Bundesliga this and last season. Very unfair assessment IMO

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13 minutes ago, Tammy's right foot said:

Agree that Willian has been one of our best players this season but STRONGLY disagree that he is miles ahead of Sancho. Callum yes but Sancho has been absolutely tearing it up in the Bundesliga this and last season. Very unfair assessment IMO

It’s one thing doing it in the Bundesliga, whole different ball game to do it in the PL. All his goals bar one has been against middle to bottom half sides in Germany. Does he have promise? Absolutely. But at €120m he’s vastly overpriced and a huge risk imo. 

Not to mention the work Willian does both in the defensive and build-up phases. One of our most underrated players in the Roman era.

Luckily Lampard sees what he brings to the table... 

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2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

We have done this to death - Alonso plays exactly the same way as any other FB in the league including Azpi, Emerson, James, who all find themselves in the box whether we have 2 or 3 CBs.  None of them are able to magic their way back to their own half through a bit of extra pace.  The formation doesn't make him a better or worse player.
I also think some of the wonder attacker reports about him are exaggerated.  

You forget Mount (or Pedro or CHO if picked).  

I don't see having a short keeper as a strong argument to change the system.
Yes we get caught out a lot when we lose the ball, at CB or anywhere else.  The answer then is not to lose the ball so much and not to flood forward so much.
I see that 3atb cures the problem - but there is a much much simpler solution with not cost:  Don't play crazy football.
As at Wolves, I see a one-off 3atb being a quickly psychological cure rather than a better system.  Hopefully Frank thinks the same way.
(especially since 3atb means losing the Jorginho role, making playing out from the back no easier at all).

I guess James hasn't actually played for us all that often.  I certainly don't recall seeing him in a foot race against a sprinter.  For those of us that haven't watched him at Derby I think his pace remains unevidenced.

RE: Alonso. Alonso is woefully slow/cannot accelerate very quickly. If you think he has a similar speed/acceleration to someone like James, Emerson or even Bellerin (who you have mentioned previously) then I wonder what you're watching as he clearly has issue with this. Although tbf, this could be a case of that I see the team play live every two weeks at least and it does not appear so obvious on TV. 

Alonso's stats for first three seasons, first two in a 3atb, 3rd in 4atb; 

2016/17 - 6 goals, 3 assists, 102 crosses, 17% accuracy, 

2017/18 - 7 goals, 2 assists, 96 crosses, 19% accuracy

2018/19 - 2 goals, 4 assists, 98 crosses, 9% accuracy 

Playing LB rather than LWB resulted serious drops in his attacking play. His crossing accuracy drop is lauaghable. Further, for comparison Willian got 8 goals and 2 assists in 2016/17 and 6 goals and 7 assits in 2017/18. That beat Alonso by a combined 1 in 2016/17 and 4 in 2017/18. Alonso isn't that far off. 

Yeah, I did forget Mount but we cannot really consider Pedro a player anymore as he is clearly out of favour. 

I do not disagree with your arguements on 3atb vs 4atb as a general rule but I feel you're both underestimating Kepa's inability to control his box and thus a need for an extra two physical players (Alonso over Emerson, Zouma/Tomori over Jorgi/Kova) and Jorgi's/Kova's lack of ability to deal with quick counters. Obviously, in an ideal world if playing 3atb we would have a ball playing CB or even better in a 4atb (how I would prefer we played) we had a GK who could controll his box and midfielders who won the ball back more. The problem however is Kepa's weaknesses are now apprant to all and sundry and we have witnessed numberous games this season where the CM has allowed multiple teams to overrun it. Personally, I do not believe that SFL has not recognised this and tried remedy it on the training pitch so that we can play his prefered 4231/433 formation. However, whatever he is doing to work on that is clearly not working. For that reason it has to be 3atb for now as its major flaw (lack of ball playing CB) is less of an issue than Kepa and the lack of controll the CM play with in 4231/433.

Edited by King Kante

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kev61   

We certainly need another midfield player.Happy with Mount and Kante,but my very good friend Jorginho will be pushed out - can't you see it!?

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