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0liver   

Quite an astonishing situation.

When played correctly Mata is still one of the best players in the league(with Suarez, Agüero), let alone in Chelsea. Now obviously Mourinho favors more hard working players but to me it speaks volumes if a manager can't adapt to someone of Mata's qualities.

But even that all aside it is stupid to sell him to United. I have absolutely no doubt that is he is sold this is going to hurt as, not this season but the following ones.

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to me it speaks volumes if a manager can't adapt to someone of Mata's qualities.

What does it say if a player (no matter who, or how talented) can't, or won't, adapt his game to the Manager's requirements?

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0liver   

What does it say if a player (no matter who, or how talented) can't, or won't, adapt his game to the Manager's requirements?

Quoting Zlatan Ibrahimovic now on his time at Barcelona:

"You have a Ferrari and you drive it like a Fiat".

Players have certain qualities and it is up to the manager to best utilize them. You don't fix something that isn't broken. I don't know what Mata did or did not do in regard to Mourinho but it is a manager's job to get the best out of every player and he clearly has failed in that regard.

I know enough of Mata to know he is one of the most intelligent players in the world, with extremely good personality. I refuse to believe for a second he did an Adebayor and sulked and refused to take orders. It may well be the case that he hasn't got enough to change his game but it is up to the manager then to still utilize him to his best.

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I am curious Dave, who exactly are these 'so many players' that possess Mata's strength? I don't see them. While I do agree with you that Oscar and Willian are more complete players and overall better midfielders than Mata due to their physical strenght, overall workrate and ability to chase down, press and recover the ball, I still don't see anyone except for Hazard who's anywhere near Mata's ability on the ball, let alone his final product which I personally rate among the very best on this planet. Mata lacks physical strength and endurance to execute a pressing gameplan, gets knocked and bullied off the ball too easily and just doesn't suit Jose's way of playing. Fair enough, I am fine with that and if we sell him, I will forever be grateful and keep every match with the little guy proudly wearing our crest in fond memory but let's call a spade a spade and please not kid ourselves here, except for Hazard there's nobody even close to Mata's overall technical ability, passing, anticipation, movement in tight spaces and final product.

I'd certainly think Willian and Oscar are every bit as good as Mata attacking wise.

Mata's efficiency and output is non-existent this season. When the world doesn't revolve around him he struggles.

Having thought about this a bit more I'm starting to think this is the perfect time to sell Mata to the highest bidder. Chelsea fans have accepted he's not the one to play in a system that can win you the league. Oppo fans and other football people still use Mata last two seasons as proof he's mustard.

This is the perfect time to sell without pissing off fans who only see Mata's fuzzy face and his time on the ball. We'll never get a huge fee for him again. He stays until the summer and only plays a bit part role we risk having people to understand this and his limitations.

I actually see it as doing United a huge disservice to sell him to them for £40m. What a blow that would be for United.

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Quoting Zlatan Ibrahimovic now on his time at Barcelona:

"You have a Ferrari and you drive it like a Fiat".

Players have certain qualities and it is up to the manager to best utilize them. You don't fix something that isn't broken. I don't know what Mata did or did not do in regard to Mourinho but it is a manager's job to get the best out of every player and he clearly has failed in that regard.

I know enough of Mata to know he is one of the most intelligent players in the world, with extremely good personality. I refuse to believe for a second he did an Adebayor and sulked and refused to take orders. It may well be the case that he hasn't got enough to change his game but it is up to the manager then to still utilize him to his best.

Not sure I agree with your logic.. It's been said on here a number of times, but finishing 7th and 3rd in the league respectively are not positions we would like to remain in. Both of these finishes were achieved with Mata at the forefront, and it could be argued that by utilising different players, Mourinho will be able to lead us to a premier league title.

I don't doubt that Mata is a quality player, but I'll back the two time premiership winning manager over a single quality player any day of the week.

Edited by aussieblue53

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Quoting Zlatan Ibrahimovic now on his time at Barcelona:

"You have a Ferrari and you drive it like a Fiat".

Players have certain qualities and it is up to the manager to best utilize them. You don't fix something that isn't broken. I don't know what Mata did or did not do in regard to Mourinho but it is a manager's job to get the best out of every player and he clearly has failed in that regard.

I know enough of Mata to know he is one of the most intelligent players in the world, with extremely good personality. I refuse to believe for a second he did an Adebayor and sulked and refused to take orders. It may well be the case that he hasn't got enough to change his game but it is up to the manager then to still utilize him to his best.

As I said in the Mourinho thread, we've got a system that works now as opposed to individuals that work. Last year gone, if Mata or Hazard didn't score or assist, we lost the game. We suffered a similar early season start with Hazard and Oscar, but we've gone beyond that. United did the same thing with RVP, where his goals were the difference. Their entire season so far has ridden on Rooney scoring them goals.

We've got to go beyond that, and ideally that was incorporating Mata into a system that worked properly. It hasn't happened, and now its seemingly come to a crunch time call between player and manager. Unfortunately for Mata, the small sample space thusfar of the Southampton game, and the others since, have backed up Mourinho's tactics. Whether it works long term, who knows? But the current situation isn't helping any party.

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Boris999   

Quoting Zlatan Ibrahimovic now on his time at Barcelona:

"You have a Ferrari and you drive it like a Fiat".

Players have certain qualities and it is up to the manager to best utilize them. You don't fix something that isn't broken. I don't know what Mata did or did not do in regard to Mourinho but it is a manager's job to get the best out of every player and he clearly has failed in that regard.

I know enough of Mata to know he is one of the most intelligent players in the world, with extremely good personality. I refuse to believe for a second he did an Adebayor and sulked and refused to take orders. It may well be the case that he hasn't got enough to change his game but it is up to the manager then to still utilize him to his best.

It is also often a sign of an intelligent manager when he is able to say no to a high quality player because he understands that the team as a whole will take a hit by accommodating that player. Remember, his job is to build the best team and perhaps he - being one of the very best in world football - does not see a team built to accomodate Mata as being as good as the team built with Mata as a bit part player.

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0liver   

As I said in the Mourinho thread, we've got a system that works now as opposed to individuals that work. Last year gone, if Mata or Hazard didn't score or assist, we lost the game. We suffered a similar early season start with Hazard and Oscar, but we've gone beyond that. United did the same thing with RVP, where his goals were the difference. Their entire season so far has ridden on Rooney scoring them goals.

We've got to go beyond that, and ideally that was incorporating Mata into a system that worked properly. It hasn't happened, and now its seemingly come to a crunch time call between player and manager. Unfortunately for Mata, the small sample space thusfar of the Southampton game, and the others since, have backed up Mourinho's tactics. Whether it works long term, who knows? But the current situation isn't helping any party.

These things I agree with. Systems come and go, we of all people should know that. To even think about selling Mata to a rival because he hasn't lived up in this short time is ludicrous. I prefer to look at the time interval since Mata joined and he has been our best player in 4/5 of that period.

I see Dave has already formed conclusive opinions that you can't win anything with him on the side based on a few months.I guess everyone has his opinion.

David Silva is even less hard working and even less mobile than Mata but is an integral part of Manchester City. Özil and Cazorla start regularly for the league leaders.

Everyone brings up the previous 2 seasons but you can't really compare them in my opinion. 2 years ago we lacked quality, last season we had many new players and also a small squad. This year we have a more settled squad, a bigger squad. Not one can claim for certain we wouldn't be leading now if we had continued our play from last season this season.

Edited by 0liver

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Stim   

Not one can claim for certain we wouldn't be leading now if we had continued our play from last season this season.

Yet apparently you are allowed to claim for certain we would be leading if he was the centre of the team.

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0liver   

Yet apparently you are allowed to claim for certain we would be leading if he was the centre of the team.

Where did I claim that?

I am just pointing out that everyone seems to take it as a fact that this system now is the way to go without even having another equal sample, and what we would be achieving other way around.

Edited by 0liver

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