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paulw66   

So, without agenda, I have spent a chunk of my morning churning data into a spreadsheet to analyse our defensive combinations (league only). The games we played with a back 3 were too few to draw any sensible conclusions, so am focussing on the games we played with a 4. the data shows thus. It is fairy clear, the partnerships with Zouma and without AC are the clear winners

Pairing Goals Conceded Matches Played Average
Zouma Rudiger 4 5 0.80
Zouma Tomori 9 8.5 1.06
AC Tomori 2 1.5 1.33
AC Rudiger 12 8.5 1.41
AC Zouma 15 7.5 2.00

 

However.....I thought that isn't entirely fair, as conceding 1 goal at home to Man City, is better than 1 at home to Bournemouth, so I have tried to weight the rankings, with a goals conceded multiplied by the final league position of the opponents. It is not entirely accurate as a clean sheet against City qould equal the same score as a clean sheet against Norwich, zero. Luckily there weren't many of those to worry about, but the table looks thus:

Pairing Goals Conceded Weighted Score Matches Played Average
AC Tomori 2 2 1.5 1.33
Zouma Rudiger 4 45 5 9.00
Zouma Tomori 9 88 8.5 10.35
AC Rudiger 12 115 8.5 13.53
AC Zouma 15 156 7.5 20.80

 

The AC - tomori partnershp ranks best, but in just 1.5 matches has little meaning. The table pretty much mirrors the original. Zouma plus Rudiger or Tomori basically coming out on top. 

Took me ages, BTW, so you're welcome. And as proof there is no bias it actually disproves some of my earlier comments. 

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kratos   

Just weighing in on my opinion with the defence.

AC and AR were not good last season that's no debate but I feel it was a combination of things and not just down to the individuals.

Kepa gets a alot of stick too but the defenders and goalkeeper don't seem to have a lot of trust with each other and unless they're all on the same page it spells disaster.

The constant rotation has had a negative effect and in my opinion has zapped confidence from all those named.

There's not enough protection ahead of them. Jorginho hasn't got the legs to get about and keep up. Kante is very good at covering the space but for me is box to box midfielder. The same can be said of MK.

You could also say that we brought in a few youngsters who are still learning and that involves experiencing what to do when you need to get into defensive positions without the ball.

Back to Kepa (I know again). He doesn't seem to possess the physicality or character to make it in this league. Each time the ball gets whipped into our box he's rooted to his line and our defence and opposition teams know it too.

Now I don't know what effect Silva will have when he plays but at nearly 36 it does concern me how he's going to cope with the rigours of this league. But I hope his presence will have a positive affect on the 3 cbs we have already.

Edited by kratos
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kratos   
7 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

So, without agenda, I have spent a chunk of my morning churning data into a spreadsheet to analyse our defensive combinations (league only). The games we played with a back 3 were too few to draw any sensible conclusions, so am focussing on the games we played with a 4. the data shows thus. It is fairy clear, the partnerships with Zouma and without AC are the clear winners

Pairing Goals Conceded Matches Played Average
Zouma Rudiger 4 5 0.80
Zouma Tomori 9 8.5 1.06
AC Tomori 2 1.5 1.33
AC Rudiger 12 8.5 1.41
AC Zouma 15 7.5 2.00

 

However.....I thought that isn't entirely fair, as conceding 1 goal at home to Man City, is better than 1 at home to Bournemouth, so I have tried to weight the rankings, with a goals conceded multiplied by the final league position of the opponents. It is not entirely accurate as a clean sheet against City qould equal the same score as a clean sheet against Norwich, zero. Luckily there weren't many of those to worry about, but the table looks thus:

Pairing Goals Conceded Weighted Score Matches Played Average
AC Tomori 2 2 1.5 1.33
Zouma Rudiger 4 45 5 9.00
Zouma Tomori 9 88 8.5 10.35
AC Rudiger 12 115 8.5 13.53
AC Zouma 15 156 7.5 20.80

 

The AC - tomori partnershp ranks best, but in just 1.5 matches has little meaning. The table pretty much mirrors the original. Zouma plus Rudiger or Tomori basically coming out on top. 

Took me ages, BTW, so you're welcome. And as proof there is no bias it actually disproves some of my earlier comments. 

Nice one Paul

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30 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

So, without agenda, I have spent a chunk of my morning churning data into a spreadsheet to analyse our defensive combinations (league only). The games we played with a back 3 were too few to draw any sensible conclusions, so am focussing on the games we played with a 4. the data shows thus. It is fairy clear, the partnerships with Zouma and without AC are the clear winners

Pairing Goals Conceded Matches Played Average
Zouma Rudiger 4 5 0.80
Zouma Tomori 9 8.5 1.06
AC Tomori 2 1.5 1.33
AC Rudiger 12 8.5 1.41
AC Zouma 15 7.5 2.00

 

However.....I thought that isn't entirely fair, as conceding 1 goal at home to Man City, is better than 1 at home to Bournemouth, so I have tried to weight the rankings, with a goals conceded multiplied by the final league position of the opponents. It is not entirely accurate as a clean sheet against City qould equal the same score as a clean sheet against Norwich, zero. Luckily there weren't many of those to worry about, but the table looks thus:

Pairing Goals Conceded Weighted Score Matches Played Average
AC Tomori 2 2 1.5 1.33
Zouma Rudiger 4 45 5 9.00
Zouma Tomori 9 88 8.5 10.35
AC Rudiger 12 115 8.5 13.53
AC Zouma 15 156 7.5 20.80

 

The AC - tomori partnershp ranks best, but in just 1.5 matches has little meaning. The table pretty much mirrors the original. Zouma plus Rudiger or Tomori basically coming out on top. 

Took me ages, BTW, so you're welcome. And as proof there is no bias it actually disproves some of my earlier comments. 

Brilliant work Paul.

Told you Christensen was crap , I just didn't realise he was marginally less crap with Tomori at his side.

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paulw66   
11 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Brilliant work Paul.

Told you Christensen was crap , I just didn't realise he was marginally less crap with Tomori at his side.

Quite sad how much I enjoyed doing it! I'm in the wrong game.

  • Haha 2

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chelboy   
8 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Brilliant work Paul.

Told you Christensen was crap , I just didn't realise he was marginally less crap with Tomori at his side.

Christensen gives his CB partners more work than they need to be doing. He doesn’t take enough responsibility especially when the ball goes into the box. Nightmare of a partner to play with. 

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3 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

Agree to disagree then. That Christensen is miles ahead of Tomori is laughable. If I would rank the performances, actual performance, among our 4 CBs last season it would be;

1. Zouma

2. Tomori

3. Rüdiger

4. Christensen

 

In terms of their development you dont think Christensen who has played 182 games for us and Monchengladbach and has been capped 30 times by Denmark is further ahead than Tomori who has played 23 times for us and only once this calendar year?

Strange.

I'm not arguing how good Tomori may become, what I'm getting at is you claim it is a shocking decision to send him on loan and keep the other three. He needs to play and play regularly and he probably wont here. It makes perfect sense for him to go on loan.

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2 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

In terms of their development you dont think Christensen who has played 182 games for us and Monchengladbach and has been capped 30 times by Denmark is further ahead than Tomori who has played 23 times for us and only once this calendar year?

Quite.  Christensen has been the blue eyed boy* for long enough.  2 great years on a very successful loan.  And loads of games under 3 managers since.  
Tomori spent most of last year as the extra man on the bench.  Adds value to the team but nothing to Tomori.
Time to reverse that.  Fans of Tomori should be glad.

(* probably can't say that)

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Bison   
2 hours ago, Sciatika said:

Do people still pick players according to the opposition? If we are playing Leicester or Liverpool, I would be unlikely to pick AC because against counter-attacking sides, you need lots of pace. But that doesn't mean I won't pick him in other circumstances. It is better to find a selection of players that offer different sets of skills to maximise the diversity of the squad as a whole. As always, I would also be balancing my choice against the need to establish a first-choice pick and to build relationships between them. I would also be considering the requirement to rotate players because no one can play in all of the games. It sometimes seems to me that we diss players because they might not be the best whilst knowing that the four best CBs in the world would not be in the same squad, partly because no one could afford them and partly because they would not get sufficient game time. You need a mix of first choice and squad players.

So we can't play him against fast, counter-attacking teams. And as shown in many games last year, he is too soft and weak to play against the more rugged teams.

So when can we play him?

Truth is we shouldn't play him in any games as he simply isn't good enough.

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JaneB   
30 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Quite sad how much I enjoyed doing it! I'm in the wrong game.

Presumably not in work time? 🤔

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