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1 hour ago, exiledblue said:

didn't do him much good either. I wasnt and am not a fan. If anything he seems to have lost some speed.

disagree - he got his confidence back at Everton, 

As for his pace? -  looks ok to me.

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kratos   
1 hour ago, chelboy said:

Christensen gives his CB partners more work than they need to be doing. He doesn’t take enough responsibility especially when the ball goes into the box. Nightmare of a partner to play with. 

Would laugh if Silva gave him a slap upside his head if (when) that happens.

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chara   

kratos mentioned Kepa..."...rooted to his line"..absolutely right but that is the first response to a loss of confidence....the mind set is as best as I can describe it one of lack of belief in one's ability to successfully come for a cross and the "fall back" logic is "I can get a chance on a shot"...all bollxxxcks of course but easy to believe when self doubt is on top. On top of one's game it's easy to commit because you know you can make the catch etc and even if the keeper doesn't it isn't a game breaker just part of the flow of a game..when confidence is shot every error stays in the forefront and of course gets bigger and a true weight.

 

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6 hours ago, paulw66 said:

So, without agenda, I have spent a chunk of my morning churning data into a spreadsheet to analyse our defensive combinations (league only). The games we played with a back 3 were too few to draw any sensible conclusions, so am focussing on the games we played with a 4. the data shows thus. It is fairy clear, the partnerships with Zouma and without AC are the clear winners

Pairing Goals Conceded Matches Played Average
Zouma Rudiger 4 5 0.80
Zouma Tomori 9 8.5 1.06
AC Tomori 2 1.5 1.33
AC Rudiger 12 8.5 1.41
AC Zouma 15 7.5 2.00

 

However.....I thought that isn't entirely fair, as conceding 1 goal at home to Man City, is better than 1 at home to Bournemouth, so I have tried to weight the rankings, with a goals conceded multiplied by the final league position of the opponents. It is not entirely accurate as a clean sheet against City qould equal the same score as a clean sheet against Norwich, zero. Luckily there weren't many of those to worry about, but the table looks thus:

Pairing Goals Conceded Weighted Score Matches Played Average
AC Tomori 2 2 1.5 1.33
Zouma Rudiger 4 45 5 9.00
Zouma Tomori 9 88 8.5 10.35
AC Rudiger 12 115 8.5 13.53
AC Zouma 15 156 7.5 20.80

 

The AC - tomori partnershp ranks best, but in just 1.5 matches has little meaning. The table pretty much mirrors the original. Zouma plus Rudiger or Tomori basically coming out on top. 

Took me ages, BTW, so you're welcome. And as proof there is no bias it actually disproves some of my earlier comments. 

Your analysis suggests that when AC is mixed into the equation, our goals conceded increases. Given that conclusion, AC, and not Tomori, should have been the odd man out (via loan or outright sale). However, the missing [subjective] part of the analysis wrt AC (since Lampard apparently rates him higher than Tomori) whether his performances will improve with the benefit of a better DM and goalie. My gut tells me that Tomori is overall a better defender & footballer than AC and some of the others but he was largely a victim of inexperience and unreliable personnel around him on the pitch. Time will tell especially if he gets plenty of playing time at Everton.

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8 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Zouma is our best CB by miles . 

Which in itself highlights the rather sad state of affairs in the CB department. Hopefully Silva can slap some sense into some of these underperforming “stars” we have on our books. 

6 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

But we know Frank ranks them Zouma/Rudiger Christensen then Tomori. 

And Rudiger has by far the best past performance level in under Conte and Sarri.

Sure. I argue he is wrong. If you as a manager can’t see Christensen has nothing to do at a club like Chelsea then I question that managers defensive understanding of the game. AC is not a PL defender. 

Regarding Rudiger - I don’t agree. There aren’t many Chelsea sides where Rudiger would have been a first choice CB. Imo he isn’t one even in this weak line-up that we have. Lacks intelligence, has a mistake in him and positioning and defending well below par. We should be doing a hell of a lot better that Rudiger. 

6 hours ago, exiledblue said:

didn't do him much good either. I wasnt and am not a fan. If anything he seems to have lost some speed.

I think his knee injuries have something to do with that. When he was signed his pace was simply awesome. I agree that’s not the case anymore even though he still has some of it. 

6 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

I think this is the point some are missing. It really doesnt matter if a few members of a forum think Tomori is better, the manager quite clearly doesnt. As you rightly say Frank has seen plenty of him, every day in training for 2 years and plenty of matches in that time. He quite clearly thinks the others are better and with that in mind going on loan to a decent top half premier league side is a very good deal. If he's as good as some on here think be will walk into that Everton side as their beat centre half.  We shall soon see.

Some clearly dont remember how good he was for those two seasons. I genuinely thought we had a top class player, with his best years ahead of him and then last season happened. His level for those two years was light years ahead of the other 3. At the time I dont think I would have swapped him for another centre half in the league, with the exception of Van Dijk. 

 

Of course it doesn’t matter and I don’t think people expect players to be picked based on their opinions. But this is a forum after all so expressing ones opinions is sort of what this place is for. 

So not sure what point your are trying to make to be honest. 

As for Rudiger, he was good in his first season, passable last season and took an absolute free fall last season where he was diabolical for most of the time he took to the field. Towards the business end it was almost comical. 

6 hours ago, paulw66 said:

So, without agenda, I have spent a chunk of my morning churning data into a spreadsheet to analyse our defensive combinations (league only). The games we played with a back 3 were too few to draw any sensible conclusions, so am focussing on the games we played with a 4. the data shows thus. It is fairy clear, the partnerships with Zouma and without AC are the clear winners

Pairing Goals Conceded Matches Played Average
Zouma Rudiger 4 5 0.80
Zouma Tomori 9 8.5 1.06
AC Tomori 2 1.5 1.33
AC Rudiger 12 8.5 1.41
AC Zouma 15 7.5 2.00

 

However.....I thought that isn't entirely fair, as conceding 1 goal at home to Man City, is better than 1 at home to Bournemouth, so I have tried to weight the rankings, with a goals conceded multiplied by the final league position of the opponents. It is not entirely accurate as a clean sheet against City qould equal the same score as a clean sheet against Norwich, zero. Luckily there weren't many of those to worry about, but the table looks thus:

Pairing Goals Conceded Weighted Score Matches Played Average
AC Tomori 2 2 1.5 1.33
Zouma Rudiger 4 45 5 9.00
Zouma Tomori 9 88 8.5 10.35
AC Rudiger 12 115 8.5 13.53
AC Zouma 15 156 7.5 20.80

 

The AC - tomori partnershp ranks best, but in just 1.5 matches has little meaning. The table pretty much mirrors the original. Zouma plus Rudiger or Tomori basically coming out on top. 

Took me ages, BTW, so you're welcome. And as proof there is no bias it actually disproves some of my earlier comments. 

Great summary Paul. That’s what I was alluding to, when we played with Tomori I feel our CB pairing worked better than when he wasn’t included. That alone warranted him to play a hell of a lot more than he ended up doing. 

5 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

 

In terms of their development you dont think Christensen who has played 182 games for us and Monchengladbach and has been capped 30 times by Denmark is further ahead than Tomori who has played 23 times for us and only once this calendar year?

Strange.

What’s strange is that Christensen still looks as lost as a school boy. He is absolutely unusable in the Premier League. May be decent enough in Germany or Holland. 

As for being capped 30 times for Denmark? Meh. Far worse players have far more caps than that. Says nothing of his quality. After all I don’t see many arguing we should sign Yussuf Poulsen or Martin Braithwaite. AC has even lost much of his star factor in the DK national team as they have realised he isn’t young and promising anymore. This is what he is. And it’s not good enough. 

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10 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

Regarding Rudiger - I don’t agree. There aren’t many Chelsea sides where Rudiger would have been a first choice CB. Imo he isn’t one even in this weak line-up that we have. Lacks intelligence, has a mistake in him and positioning and defending well below par. We should be doing a hell of a lot better that Rudiger. 

There are quite a few Chelsea sides where a 5 year younger Thiago wouldn't have been 3rd choice.  those days and budgets are gone.  Rudiger 17/18 and 18/19 is the best CB we have had since JT of 14/15.
On Rudiger I really have no idea where you are coming from.

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29 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

There are quite a few Chelsea sides where a 5 year younger Thiago wouldn't have been 3rd choice.  those days and budgets are gone. 

Wait, am I understanding you correctly here? There are quite a few Chelsea sides where a 31 year old Thiago Silva wouldn't have even been 3rd choice?

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45 minutes ago, Bridge Soldier said:

Wait, am I understanding you correctly here? There are quite a few Chelsea sides where a 31 year old Thiago Silva wouldn't have even been 3rd choice?

Gallas Jt Riccy for a start.  I probably meant to say seasons, not sides.

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23 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Gallas Jt Riccy for a start.  I probably meant to say seasons, not sides.

Splitting hairs here but it’s always difficult to make such comparisons. Silva had (still has?) skills that could have been very useful if paired with JT. 

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bert19   
1 hour ago, The_Ghost said:

Splitting hairs here but it’s always difficult to make such comparisons. Silva had (still has?) skills that could have been very useful if paired with JT. 

JT’s comment on this Instagram post seems to indicate so...

CC4E4107-7F39-4520-8F8C-103992FE93C0.png

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